Nuts & Bolts of HWE Cases (1) (Part 4 of 4)
04:00:18 16 yours, was he?
04:00:19 17 A. No, he was never a patient that I treated. 04:00:21 18 Q. In fact, he's a client for the law firm that
04:00:24 19 hired you?
04:00:24 20 A. Correct. 04:00:29 21 Q. Now, 19 years after receiving your medical
04:00:32 22 degree, you decided to go to law school?
04:00:34 23 A. Correct. 04:00:35 24 Q. And after obtaining your law degree, you did
04:00:38 25 practice briefly at a Manhattan law firm, didn't you?
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:00:42 1 A. Yes, technically. 04:00:43 2 Q. And that law firm that you briefly worked for 04:00:45 3 after you obtained your law degree did primarily
04:00:50 4 plaintiff's work as well?
04:00:51 5 A. They did both, but mainly plaintiff's work. 04:00:55 6 Q. And even though your time practicing law was 04:01:00 7 fairly brief, you, for lack of a better term, you're not
04:01:05 8 a stranger to the courtroom, are you?
04:01:07 9 A. I'm not a what?
04:01:08 10 Q. You're not a stranger to the courtroom?
04:01:10 11 A. A stranger?
04:01:11 12 Q. Yes. You testified in many cases?
04:01:13 13 A. No, I've testified in cases over quite a long 04:01:16 14 period of time. 04:01:17 15 Q. And you've also published some articles in your
04:01:21 16 capacity as an expert?
04:01:23 17 A. Well, I published, you know, many articles. 04:01:28 18 Q. Now, you wrote an article, or do you recall 04:01:31 19 writing an article entitled "Hiring the Hired Gun:
04:01:35 20 Lawyers and their Psychiatric Experts"?
04:01:38 21 A. Yes. 04:01:38 22 Q. And in that article you defined a hired gun as 04:01:42 23 someone who only works for one side, the plaintiff or 04:01:45 24 defendant, and shows obvious bias in that direction. Do
04:01:49 25 you recall defining it that way?
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:01:50 1 A. That's one of the criteria. There were many 04:01:55 2 others in that article. 04:01:56 3 Q. Now, you have given numerous depositions as an
04:02:00 4 expert consultant?
04:02:01 5 A. Yes. 04:02:01 6 Q. And much like -- and you've also testified in
04:02:04 7 court?
04:02:04 8 A. Correct.
04:02:05 9 Q. Much like you're doing here today?
04:02:08 10 A. Correct. 04:02:09 11 Q. So let's talk about that for a minute. Over the 04:02:12 12 past four years, I believe when I took your deposition 04:02:15 13 you told me that you had testified in eight trials in 04:02:20 14 the same role that you're doing here today. Do you
04:02:23 15 recall telling me that?
04:02:24 16 A. I don't recall specifically, but if that's what 04:02:29 17 you have, I agree. Sure. 04:02:31 18 Q. And in seven of those eight cases, you were
04:02:36 19 testifying for the plaintiff's side, weren't you?
04:02:38 20 A. I don't recall, but if you represent that, I'll 04:02:41 21 accept it. 04:02:42 22 Q. Which would mean that of these seven trials that 04:02:45 23 you -- I'm sorry, of the eight trials that you testified 04:02:49 24 to -- or testified in over the last few years, you've
04:02:53 25 only testified once for the defendants, correct?
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:02:56 1 A. If you say so, yes. 04:02:58 2 Q. All right. And then you've -- I believe you told 04:03:03 3 me when we were talking at your deposition that you also
04:03:09 5 depositions. Do you recall telling me that?
04:03:11 6 A. No, but I'll accept your -- 04:03:15 7 Q. And out of those 14 depositions, only three were 04:03:20 8 in cases that you were hired by the defendant; is that
04:03:23 9 right?
04:03:23 10 A. If you say so, yes. 04:03:25 11 Q. The other 11 depositions you gave because you
04:03:27 12 were hired by the plaintiff's attorney?
04:03:29 13 A. Yes. 04:03:31 14 Q. I want to talk to you -- we discussed this back 04:03:34 15 in 2016, but I want to revisit the issue. You have 04:03:38 16 given testimony on behalf of a defendant in the Whitten
04:03:41 17 case; do you recall talking to me about that?
04:03:43 18 A. Yes, I have. 04:03:44 19 Q. You've reviewed your deposition testimony 04:03:48 20 obviously before and in anticipation of talking with me
04:03:51 21 today, right?
04:03:52 22 A. My deposition?
04:03:53 23 Q. Yes. 04:03:53 24 A. Yes.
04:03:54 25 Q. You've reviewed it recently?
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:03:55 1 A. Not that recently, but I did review it.
04:03:57 2 Q. When is the last time you've reviewed it?
04:04:00 3 A. I don't recall exactly. 04:04:02 4 Q. Okay. Now, we were talking in your deposition 04:04:05 5 about the Whitten case, and that case dealt with sexual
04:04:11 6 misconduct, didn't it?
04:04:16 7 A. It dealt with premises liability. 04:04:18 8 Q. And I believe that you were retained in that case 04:04:21 9 to testify on behalf of an apartment complex that was
04:04:26 10 being sued by a minor child, right?
04:04:30 11 A. By the minor children's parents, yes. 04:04:33 12 Q. And it was alleged in that case that the landlord 04:04:37 13 for the apartment complex had unlawfully climbed into 04:04:41 14 the room of a 14-year-old girl, fondled her, masturbated 04:04:46 15 in front of her, and then fled. Do you recall those
04:04:50 16 being the allegations?
04:04:51 17 A. Vaguely, yes. 04:04:52 18 Q. And in your expert opinion that you gave in that 04:04:54 19 case, you found the sexual assault that I just described 04:04:58 20 did not have a significant or lasting impact on the
04:05:03 21 13-year-old victim; wasn't that your finding?
04:05:06 22 A. It didn't have a -- it didn't have a lasting 04:05:10 23 impact on her psychiatric condition or functioning, 04:05:14 24 correct. 04:05:14 25 Q. Despite the fact that she had been fondled and
Goldstein - Cross-Exam
04:05:17 1 masturbated in front of when she was a minor?
04:05:20 2 A. Yes. 04:05:20 3 Q. But yet your expert opinion in this case is that 04:05:23 4 Mr. has suffered and continues to suffer severe 04:05:28 5 psychological trauma as a result of allegedly being
04:05:32 6 touched by a female coworker over five years ago?
04:05:36 7 That's your finding?
04:05:38 8 A. Yes. 04:05:40 9 Q. Now, it's true that you, yourself, have also been
04:05:43 10 referred to as a hired gun; is that right?
04:05:46 11 A. Only by the opposing lawyers like yourself. 04:05:50 12 Q. I haven't called you a hired gun yet. 04:05:54 13 Just kidding. 04:05:55 14 Let's talk about the article or presentation that 04:05:58 15 you were involved in, and that article was entitled 04:06:01 16 "Expertise in Psychiatric and Sexual Harassment Cases."
04:06:05 17 Do you recall being involved in the presentation of that
04:06:08 18 particular article?
04:06:09 19 A. I don't know if it was a presentation or a -- it 04:06:15 20 was a classroom setting discussion. 04:06:17 21 Q. I believe you told me that it was a presentation 04:06:20 22 that was held at a New York law school, and you were 04:06:22 23 there to give your input about the role of a 04:06:25 24 psychiatrist in sexual harassment cases.
04:06:27 25 A. Yes, I was assisting the law professor in
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:06:30 1 discussing the psychiatric perspectives on it. 04:06:33 2 Q. And then you subsequently after that particular 04:06:37 3 presentation you participated in another presentation at 04:06:40 4 the law school which was entitled "Preparation of a 04:06:43 5 Psychiatric Witness in Sexual Harassment Cases." Do you
04:06:47 6 recall being involved in that?
04:06:48 7 A. Yes. 04:06:49 8 Q. And that is the very role that you're in today,
04:06:53 9 correct, a psychiatric witness?
04:06:56 10 A. I am a psychiatric witness, yes. 04:06:59 11 Q. Now, in these presentations that you participated 04:07:02 12 in, do you recall that you specifically discussed what a 04:07:06 13 psychiatric expert or consultant like yourself would 04:07:11 14 most want to have available in terms of collateral
04:07:14 15 information to evaluate sexual harassment cases?
04:07:18 16 A. You mean from the lecture itself?
04:07:22 17 Q. Yes. 04:07:22 18 A. I don't recall the details. 04:07:23 19 Q. Okay. Well, you would agree that collateral 04:07:28 20 information is -- consists of more objective data other 04:07:35 21 than just the discussion or talk that you have with the
04:07:38 22 person that you're evaluating?
04:07:39 23 A. Yes. There should be more objective information 04:07:44 24 besides just what the patient tells you, sure. 04:07:47 25 Q. And in these presentations you specifically
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:07:50 1 discussed the fact that a consultant would most like to 04:07:54 2 have these types of collateral information in making
04:08:00 3 their evaluations, correct?
04:08:01 4 A. Yes. 04:08:02 5 Q. And this collateral information would include
04:08:09 6 third-party observations?
04:08:11 7 A. Sometimes, yes. 04:08:14 8 Q. And, in fact, Dr. Goldstein, in formulating your 04:08:21 9 own expert opinion, you would prefer to have all the 04:08:24 10 data that you could analyze in terms of collateral
04:08:28 11 information in any form to be available for your review?
04:08:32 12 A. Well, it could come in many forms. It could 04:08:35 13 come in medical records forms; it could come in 04:08:38 14 observations by friends and family; it could come in 04:08:41 15 observations by coworkers. 04:08:45 16 Q. Okay. We'll talk about that. So you would use 04:08:49 17 this collateral information to provide context to what
04:08:52 18 you learned from the person that you're evaluating?
04:08:55 19 A. Correct. 04:08:56 20 Q. In fact, I believe that you previously testified 04:08:59 21 that one of the keystone requirements for a good 04:09:03 22 forensic evaluation is, number one, conducting a
04:09:06 23 psychiatric examination?
04:09:07 24 A. Right. 04:09:08 25 Q. And number two, obtaining collateral sources of
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:09:12 1 information to corroborate your findings of your
04:09:16 2 psychiatric examination?
04:09:17 3 A. Yes. There should always be some corroboration 04:09:20 4 because you can't just take at face value what the 04:09:24 5 patient tells you. You should always take it with a 04:09:27 6 grain of salt. 04:09:28 7 Q. Now, the collateral sources would include
04:09:30 8 reviewing depositions?
04:09:31 9 A. Yes.
04:09:32 10 Q. Obtaining third-party observations?
04:09:36 11 A. Yes. 04:09:36 12 Q. In other words, speaking with people that have 04:09:38 13 worked with the person who you've been hired to evaluate
04:09:43 14 for litigation purposes, correct?
04:09:44 15 A. Not always, but sometimes. 04:09:46 16 Q. Well, let's talk about the collateral sources 04:09:48 17 that you looked at and didn't look at in Mr. Ward's 04:09:53 18 case. We're going to start with the deposition aspect. 04:09:56 19 You just told the jury that one of the things you would 04:09:58 20 consider to be a good collateral source was reading
04:10:01 21 depositions given in a case, correct?
04:10:03 22 A. Yes. 04:10:03 23 Q. Okay. Now, sir, are you aware that over ten
04:10:07 24 depositions have been taken in this particular case?
04:10:11 25 MS. HOULDING: Objection. Lacks foundation.
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:10:13 1 A. I am not aware specifically. 04:10:17 2 THE COURT: Sustained.
04:10:20 3 By Ms. Kern:
04:10:21 4 Q. Dr. Goldstein, are you aware of any depositions
04:10:24 5 that have been taken in this matter?
04:10:26 6 A. I'm aware of my own and of Mr. Ward's, yes, 04:10:30 7 specifically. 04:10:31 8 Q. Did plaintiff's counsel tell you that ten other
04:10:34 9 people had given depositions in this case?
04:10:36 10 MS. HOULDING: I'm going to object to 04:10:40 11 discussion of our -- our conversations with Dr. 04:10:45 12 Goldstein. 04:10:45 13 THE COURT: Sustained.
04:10:45 14 By Ms. Kern:
04:10:46 15 Q. Would it surprise you to learn, Dr. Goldstein, 04:10:48 16 that over 13 individuals have given depositions in this
04:10:51 17 case?
04:10:52 18 MS. HOULDING: Objection. Lacks foundation. 04:10:54 19 THE COURT: Sustained.
04:10:56 20 By Ms. Kern:
04:10:56 21 Q. Did you review any depositions before providing
04:10:59 22 your opinion in this case?
04:11:03 23 A. My opinion or my report?
04:11:06 24 Q. Either or. 04:11:07 25 A. I did review Mr. 's deposition before I came
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:11:11 1 to testify today. 04:11:12 2 Q. But you hadn't -- you weren't given a copy of his
04:11:15 3 deposition before you issued your reports, had you?
04:11:18 4 A. Correct. 04:11:24 5 Q. So it's fair to say you have not reviewed -- you 04:11:28 6 did not review any depositions before issuing the two
04:11:32 7 reports that you provided in this case?
04:11:33 8 A. Correct. 04:11:36 9 Q. And in preparing your expert reports for 04:11:43 10 plaintiff's counsel, you had, in fact, only reviewed 04:11:48 11 some isolated handwritten notes from Mr. Ward's 04:11:52 12 deposition and not the actual deposition transcript
04:11:56 13 itself, correct?
04:11:56 14 A. That's correct. 04:11:57 15 Q. Now, we talked a little bit earlier about 04:12:00 16 third-party observations which, as you've told us, is 04:12:04 17 one of the things that a psychiatrist consultant such as 04:12:07 18 yourself would like to -- most like to have available as
04:12:11 19 collateral information. Do you recall that testimony?
04:12:14 20 A. Correct. Yes. 04:12:15 21 Q. And you have defined third-party observations as 04:12:18 22 observations made by people who actually worked with the
04:12:21 23 person you're evaluating; do you recall telling me that?
04:12:25 24 A. Those are some of the possibilities, yes. 04:12:27 25 Q. And one of the purposes of interviewing, for
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:12:32 1 example, coworkers or former coworkers is to gauge or 04:12:36 2 test the consistency or inconsistencies of the 04:12:40 3 information provided to you by the person you're
04:12:42 4 evaluating?
04:12:44 5 A. Some aspects of it. 04:12:46 6 Q. Okay. Well, in fact, Dr. Goldstein, for other 04:12:49 7 cases in the past you have actually interviewed people 04:12:53 8 that were in the workplace before forming your expert
04:12:56 9 opinion, correct?
04:12:56 10 A. In some cases, yes. I thought it was necessary 04:12:59 11 in those cases. 04:13:00 12 Q. In this particular case, however, you didn't 04:13:05 13 bother to interview anyone before reaching your
04:13:07 14 conclusions regarding Mr. Ward, did you?
04:13:09 15 A. Face-to-face interviews, no. 04:13:12 16 Q. You didn't conduct any interviews, whether they 04:13:15 17 were face-to-face or not, with any of Mr. 's
04:13:19 18 coworkers, did you?
04:13:20 19 A. No, I didn't have any interviews.
04:13:30 21 years, did you?
04:13:31 22 A. Correct.
04:13:31 23 Q. And you didn't think that was necessary?
04:13:33 24 A. No, I didn't. 04:13:34 25 Q. You didn't speak to either of Mr. Ward's
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:13:37 1 daughters who were living with Mr. Ward at the time that 04:13:40 2 these alleged sexual assaults were taking place, did
04:13:43 3 you?
04:13:43 4 A. Correct. 04:13:43 5 Q. And you didn't interview any of Mr. Ward's
04:13:46 6 neighbors or close family friends?
04:13:48 7 A. Correct. 04:13:49 8 Q. You didn't speak to any of his coworkers at
04:13:52 9 AutoZone?
04:13:53 10 A. I didn't speak to them, no. 04:13:55 11 Q. You didn't try to speak with Ms. Atkinson, the
04:14:00 12 person that Mr. accuses of sexually harassing him?
04:14:03 13 A. Ms. Atkinson?
04:14:04 14 Q. Correct. 04:14:05 15 A. No. 04:14:05 16 Q. Okay. And your reason for not bothering to talk 04:14:09 17 to any of these folks was because, quote, it would have 04:14:12 18 been very time consuming to obtain a list about who 04:14:15 19 would be available to speak with you. Do you recall
04:14:18 20 telling me that?
04:14:19 21 MS. HOULDING: Objection, Your Honor. I 04:14:21 22 mean, she's asking for hearsay from his deposition, and 04:14:25 23 it's an attempt at improper impeachment, I guess. 04:14:30 24 Objection. 04:14:31 25 THE COURT: Overruled.
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:14:36 1 A. I think I gave a number of reasons for not 04:14:40 2 bothering to try to interview the coworkers, time 04:14:46 3 constraints for one of them. The others were -- most of 04:14:50 4 them were still working at AutoZone, which was being 04:14:53 5 sued, and I didn't think their comments would be that 04:14:57 6 reliable or accurate. But I did have a written -- a 04:15:01 7 written declaration from one of the coworkers.
04:15:04 8 Q. Isn't it true, Dr. Goldstein, that you didn't 04:15:08 9 even bother to ask Mr. 's counsel for a list of
04:15:10 10 witnesses?
04:15:13 11 A. I only asked them for what I thought was 04:15:16 12 necessary. 04:15:17 13 Q. All right. And I think that you just testified 04:15:20 14 that you didn't talk to any of -- 04:15:22 15 THE COURT: Counsel, we're way past the 04:15:24 16 exhibit that's on the screen.
04:15:44 17 By Ms. Kern:
04:15:44 18 Q. I believe you just testified that you didn't talk 04:15:46 19 to any of the coworkers because there was a fear that 04:15:50 20 that might not be a reliable source of information since
04:15:53 21 they were still currently employed by the company?
04:15:56 22 A. Yes, I thought it would not be -- it wouldn't -- 04:16:00 23 they wouldn't be the best source of accurate 04:16:02 24 information, yes. 04:16:04 25 Q. Yet you believe that Mr. Ward alone, who has a
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:16:07 1 strong financial interest in the outcome of this case,
04:16:10 2 is a reliable source?
04:16:13 3 A. Well, he was one source. My examination of him 04:16:19 4 was one reliable source of information. 04:16:21 5 Q. You didn't bother to ask whether any of his 04:16:24 6 coworkers were still employed by AutoZone to ease your
04:16:28 7 concerns of unreliability, did you?
04:16:32 8 A. The one that was not still employed, Mr. 04:16:36 9 Tarkington, I had his written sworn statement; I didn't 04:16:40 10 have to talk to him. 04:16:40 11 Q. That was a written statement that he had given to
04:16:44 12 Mr. 's counsel?
04:16:46 13 A. I don't know who he gave it to, but he made a 04:16:50 14 sworn statement. 04:16:51 15 Q. Now, you haven't made any attempt over the past 04:16:55 16 four years since you've been retained by counsel to talk
04:17:00 17 to Mr. Ward's family members or friends, have you?
04:17:05 18 A. No, I haven't. 04:17:11 19 Q. Now, you don't have any firsthand knowledge about 04:17:14 20 what happened or didn't happen at AutoZone with Mr.
04:17:16 21 Ward; is that right?
04:17:17 22 A. That's correct. 04:17:21 23 Q. You've never visited the AutoZone store where Mr.
04:17:24 24 Ward claims he was sexually assaulted?
04:17:26 25 A. No, I haven't.
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:17:26 1 Q. In fact, you haven't sought any corroboration to 04:17:30 2 Mr. 's story that he was, indeed, sexually
04:17:33 3 assaulted, have you?
04:17:34 4 A. That he was, in fact, sexually assaulted?
04:17:36 5 Q. Yes. 04:17:37 6 A. I have no knowledge about that. It's not my role 04:17:39 7 to determine that. 04:17:40 8 Q. Now, to be clear, you were hired by Mr. 's 04:17:47 9 counsel to perform a complete psychiatric evaluation to 04:17:51 10 determine, number one, if there was or was not a 04:17:55 11 psychiatric disorder or condition present; and number 04:18:00 12 two, to then determine whether this condition or 04:18:02 13 disorder was related to the alleged sexual harassment;
04:18:09 14 is that right?
04:18:09 15 A. Well, was related to the way he saw it or his 04:18:14 16 perceptions of what happened, not to the factual 04:18:17 17 accuracy of it. 04:18:19 18 Q. Okay. All right. And it's your testimony that 04:18:21 19 based on your psychiatric examination, which we'll talk 04:18:25 20 about in a minute, that, indeed, Mr. does suffer
04:18:27 21 from a severe psychiatric condition?
04:18:30 22 A. Correct. 04:18:34 23 Q. And that this condition is, in fact, caused by 04:18:40 24 the alleged sexual harassment that he claims he endured
04:18:46 25 at AutoZone?
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:18:46 1 A. Again, caused by how he viewed the situation or 04:18:53 2 his perceptions of what was going on. 04:18:55 3 Q. So your opinion is based on Mr. 's perception 04:18:59 4 of sexual harassment and not whether or not he was
04:19:03 5 actually harassed; is that right?
04:19:05 6 A. Correct. Yes. 04:19:07 7 Q. And you reached this diagnosis after Mr. 04:19:10 8 told you that the alleged harassment had made him feel 04:19:15 9 apprehensive, panicky, depressed, and helpless; is that
04:19:20 10 right?
04:19:21 11 A. Among other symptoms, yes. 04:19:23 12 Q. And that he had already told you he had multiple 04:19:26 13 awakenings and nightmares of being attacked by his
04:19:30 14 female coworker?
04:19:31 15 A. Yes. 04:19:32 16 Q. And you also based your opinion on the fact that 04:19:35 17 he told you that he lost 15 pounds and that his 04:19:38 18 concentration and memory had been impaired due to what 04:19:43 19 you characterize in your report as attacks by a female
04:19:49 20 assailant at AutoZone; is that right?
04:19:51 21 A. I never said in my report that his weight loss 04:19:56 22 was in any way related to his psychiatric diagnosis. 04:19:59 23 Q. You certainly noted the fact that Mr. had 04:20:02 24 related to you in the context of his allegations that he
04:20:07 25 lost 15 pounds?
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:20:08 1 A. Yes. 04:20:11 2 Q. Just so I can try to understand, because this is 04:20:13 3 all based -- on your opinion is based on perception,
04:20:17 4 what if I told you that I had been attacked by a bear?
04:20:23 5 A. By a bear?
04:20:23 6 Q. A bear, uh-huh. 04:20:25 7 And that this bear attack made me apprehensive, 04:20:29 8 panicky, depressed, and helpless. And that I also told 04:20:36 9 you that based on this bear attack I had multiple 04:20:41 10 awakenings, nightmares about being attacked by the bear 04:20:46 11 and, in fact, that I had lost 15 pounds as a result, and 04:20:50 12 my memory was not good or my memory/concentration was 04:20:53 13 not good because I had been attacked by this bear.
04:20:58 14 If I told you that in consultation, much like Mr. 04:21:03 15 Ward did with the sexual assaults, you could conclude 04:21:06 16 that I, in fact, also suffer from a severe psychiatric
04:21:10 17 condition due to the bear attack, correct?
04:21:12 18 A. Well, again, I wouldn't draw that conclusion 04:21:15 19 without some corroboration from other sources. 04:21:19 20 Q. Well, the corroboration that you drew from other 04:21:23 21 sources in this case were the three sessions that you
04:21:26 22 had with Mr. by video, correct?
04:21:30 23 A. No, those were not the other sources. The other 04:21:32 24 sources were his medical records and the sworn -- his 04:21:40 25 EEOC filing and the sworn statements of his coworker,
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:21:45 1 Mr. Tarkington. 04:21:46 2 Q. Okay. But you never concluded that his -- that
04:21:49 3 the sexual harassment ever occurred, correct?
04:21:53 4 A. Yes. I said that's not my -- that's beyond my 04:21:57 5 knowledge, yes. 04:21:58 6 Q. And if after you met with me and I had relayed 04:22:02 7 these feelings that I had from a bear attack, and you 04:22:05 8 found out later on that, in fact, I had no such 04:22:09 9 encounter with a bear, that I just thought that one of 04:22:12 10 the ceramic bears here in New Bern had attacked me, that 04:22:15 11 would certainly change your opinion as to whether I
04:22:18 12 suffered a psychiatric condition, correct?
04:22:20 13 A. Well, those are really two questions in one 04:22:24 14 there. 04:22:25 15 Q. Your testimony is that you have no idea whether 04:22:32 16 or not Mr. was sexually assaulted at AutoZone,
04:22:35 17 correct?
04:22:35 18 A. Yes. I've already testified to that. 04:22:37 19 Q. Yet you make the leap that Mr. suffers from 04:22:41 20 a severe psychiatric condition as a result of this
04:22:47 21 perception of alleged sexual harassment?
04:22:50 22 A. Yes. 04:22:51 23 Q. Now, you would agree that it's possible that your 04:22:57 24 opinion or diagnosis that you've given in this lawsuit 04:23:03 25 would change if you knew that Mr. tried to stick
Goldstein - Cross-Exam
04:23:07 1 his hands down Ms. Atkinson's front pants?
04:23:11 2 A. Well, I wouldn't say that it definitely would 04:23:16 3 change. I'd like to know more about that allegation, 04:23:19 4 certainly. 04:23:20 5 Q. Sure. Because it's possible that by knowing that 04:23:23 6 piece of information, your opinion in this case could
04:23:27 7 possibly be changed, right?
04:23:28 8 A. Possible. 04:23:29 9 Q. Okay. And we've already discussed the fact that 04:23:32 10 you never bothered to talk with Ms. Atkinson. 04:23:35 11 MS. HOULDING: Objection. Asked and 04:23:37 12 answered. 04:23:37 13 THE COURT: Sustained. You don't have to 04:23:39 14 answer it.
04:23:42 15 By Ms. Kern:
04:23:44 16 Q. Dr. Goldstein, in all the documentation that you 04:23:46 17 were provided to review to prepare your reports, were 04:23:52 18 you ever made aware that Mr. had informed AutoZone 04:23:57 19 that Wanda Smith had treated him with dignity and
04:24:02 20 respect?
04:24:03 21 A. I did learn that, yes.
04:24:04 22 Q. I'm sorry?
04:24:05 23 A. Did I know that? Yes, I did. 04:24:09 24 Q. You knew that before you made your -- gave your
04:24:12 25 expert opinion in this case?
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:24:14 1 A. No, I learned that from his deposition, I 04:24:17 2 believe.
04:24:18 3 Q. So that was just very recently?
04:24:22 4 A. That was more recently, yes. 04:24:23 5 Q. And certainly the fact that Mr. Ward has now 04:24:27 6 characterized his immediate supervisor as one that 04:24:30 7 treated him with dignity and respect, that might also 04:24:37 8 have an impact on your opinion this in case; isn't that
04:24:40 9 true?
04:24:40 10 A. Not really. 04:24:41 11 Q. Well, you're aware, sir, based on reading his 04:24:43 12 deposition that this supervisor that Mr. so nicely 04:24:49 13 refers to in his exit interview is the same person who 04:24:53 14 he claims and has told this jury laughed at him when he
04:24:57 15 reported this alleged sexual harassment?
04:25:00 16 MS. HOULDING: I'm going to object. If 04:25:03 17 she's asking about his deposition testimony, it calls 04:25:05 18 for hearsay. But I think it was also compound. 04:25:15 19 THE COURT: As to the way the question is 04:25:16 20 worded, the Court sustains the objection. 04:25:25 21 MS. KERN: Thank you, Your Honor.
04:25:25 22 By Ms. Kern:
04:25:25 23 Q. You indicated you reviewed Mr. 's deposition
04:25:28 24 before coming here today?
04:25:29 25 A. Yes, correct.
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:25:31 1 Q. Based on his deposition testimony you are aware 04:25:33 2 that he accuses Wanda Smith of laughing at him when he
04:25:37 3 reported the allegations of sexual harassment?
04:25:40 4 A. I don't recall that she laughed at him. She just 04:25:43 5 didn't do anything about it. 04:25:45 6 Q. You're aware in reviewing his deposition that he 04:25:48 7 claims that Wanda Smith told him, quote: Just give
04:25:52 8 Christina what she wants?
04:25:54 9 A. I don't recall that either. I recall that she 04:25:57 10 said she'd look into it, or something of that nature, 04:26:00 11 and never did. 04:26:01 12 Q. Are you aware that this is the same supervisor, 04:26:05 13 Wanda Smith, that Mr. claims retaliated against him
04:26:09 14 and said he complained too much?
04:26:13 15 A. She did tell him he complained too much, yes. 04:26:16 16 Q. Does it surprise you, Dr. Goldstein, that he 04:26:19 17 would characterize, after he left AutoZone, in a 04:26:22 18 document that Ms. Smith treated him with dignity and
04:26:27 19 respect, and he was very satisfied with her supervision?
04:26:31 20 MS. HOULDING: Object to relevance.
04:26:33 21 By Ms. Kern:
04:26:34 22 Q. Does that change your opinion at all?
04:26:35 23 A. Not really. 04:26:39 24 Q. Now, you were retained, Dr. Goldstein, to 04:26:44 25 determine whether or not Mr. was credible, at least
Goldstein - Cross-Exam
04:26:48 1 in relation to his own situation, right?
04:26:51 2 A. I wouldn't use -- I mean, I wouldn't use the word 04:26:55 3 credible because that's more of a legal term. I just 04:26:58 4 said that he was internally consistent, and his 04:27:03 5 presentation was authentic. 04:27:06 6 Q. In other words, you were retained to determine 04:27:08 7 whether or not he was credible with regard to the
04:27:10 8 statements he was making to you?
04:27:12 9 MS. HOULDING: Objection. Asked and 04:27:14 10 answered. 04:27:14 11 THE COURT: Sustained.
04:27:15 12 By Ms. Kern:
04:27:16 13 Q. Do you recall, Dr. Goldstein, when I took your
04:27:18 14 deposition back in 2016 I asked you that same question?
04:27:22 15 A. I think "credible" was your term. 04:27:43 16 Q. I'm looking at page 51, line 22 to 24. Can you
04:27:57 17 see it on the screen, Dr. Goldstein?
04:28:00 18 A. Yes. 04:28:01 19 Q. Okay. And I asked you on page 51, line 23: 04:28:09 20 "You were retained to determine whether Mr. Ward 04:28:12 21 was credible, correct?" 04:28:16 22 A. Yes.
04:28:18 23 Q. And your answer was what?
04:28:20 24 A. "In relation to his own situation." 04:28:38 25 Q. Now, in assessing credibility from a psychiatric
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:28:40 1 standpoint, you would agree with me that body language, 04:28:44 2 eye contact, posture, and other factors may come into
04:28:50 3 play?
04:28:50 4 A. They may come into play at some level, yes. 04:28:56 5 Q. And that what is really important in determining 04:28:58 6 a person's credibility would be the consistency of the
04:29:03 7 person's statements that had been made by them to you?
04:29:08 8 A. Without accepting your use of the word 04:29:13 9 "credibility," I'd say the consistency of the statements 04:29:16 10 would be important from a psychiatric perspective, yes. 04:29:21 11 Q. And the consistency of statements include the
04:29:26 12 history that the person provides to you, their history?
04:29:31 13 A. The history they provide to me and what they said 04:29:34 14 in other places, other contexts. 04:29:37 15 Q. As well as the statements that the person makes 04:29:39 16 to you during these individual sessions that you have
04:29:41 17 with them?
04:29:42 18 A. Yes. 04:29:42 19 Q. Okay. And you would agree that the longer that 04:29:45 20 you see someone, the better you get to know them,
04:29:48 21 correct?
04:29:50 22 A. Obviously, yes.
04:29:52 23 Q. And the more reliable your opinion will be?
04:29:54 24 A. Well, not necessarily. But the more you get to 04:29:58 25 know them, the more perhaps you're accepting of their
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:30:03 1 overall consistency. 04:30:06 2 Q. And you would also agree that the more sessions 04:30:08 3 that you have and the longer the sessions are, the
04:30:12 4 better it is to determine credibility, correct?
04:30:16 5 A. Again, I don't determine credibility. 04:30:35 6 Q. I'm going to show you what I'm going to put on 04:30:38 7 the screen. It's page 14 from your deposition. And you 04:30:44 8 recall, sir, we were discussing credibility. And I'm 04:30:49 9 going to direct you to line 20 of page 14. 04:30:53 10 A. 14. Okay.
04:30:55 11 Q. Page 14, line 20.
04:31:01 12 A. Line what?
04:31:02 13 Q. Line 20. 04:31:06 14 And I asked you, sir: 04:31:07 15 "So the more sessions and the longer the sessions 04:31:10 16 are, the better you are to gauge credibility; is that a 04:31:15 17 fair statement?"
04:31:16 18 And what was your answer?
04:31:17 19 A. "Correct. Yes." 04:31:29 20 Q. All right. Now, you've never met Mr. Ward in
04:31:32 21 person until today; is that right?
04:31:36 22 A. That's correct. 04:31:37 23 Q. And when you were conducting your, as you've 04:31:42 24 described, comprehensive psychiatric examinations, you 04:31:46 25 didn't bother to come down to North Carolina and speak
Goldstein - Cross-Exam
04:31:48 1 with Mr. Ward face-to-face?
04:31:50 2 A. I didn't come to North Carolina, no. 04:31:53 3 Q. And you didn't ask him to travel to New York, did
04:31:56 4 you?
04:31:56 5 A. No. 04:31:56 6 Q. And so you chose -- so you didn't observe his
04:32:02 7 posture in person face-to-face; is that fair?
04:32:05 8 A. I observed his posture over the video 04:32:09 9 conferencing. I had a huge desktop console with a giant 04:32:16 10 picture of his upper body, his arms, legs -- his arms, 04:32:21 11 hands, face, expressions, posture, and so forth. 04:32:25 12 Q. So was he sitting down when you were speaking
04:32:28 13 with him?
04:32:28 14 A. I'm sorry?
04:32:29 15 Q. Was he sitting down when you were speaking with
04:32:32 16 him?
04:32:32 17 A. Yes. 04:32:33 18 Q. You would agree with me that observing someone's 04:32:35 19 body language and posture in person would be more ideal 04:32:40 20 than observing somebody's posture and demeanor on a
04:32:45 21 video; do you agree with that?
04:32:47 22 A. No. I had a very good view of his posture and 04:32:52 23 his expressions and his emotional reactions and so 04:32:56 24 forth. 04:32:56 25 Q. Okay. Well, your assessment of Mr. Ward, what he
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:33:04 1 was telling you in the examinations, was essentially 04:33:06 2 based on three video sessions that you had with him over
04:33:09 3 a four-year period?
04:33:12 4 A. Yeah. Approximately two and a half, three hours. 04:33:18 5 Q. And I believe you told the jury that you first
04:33:20 6 Skyped with Mr. in May of 2014?
04:33:24 7 A. Yes. 04:33:24 8 Q. And that would have been over nine months after
04:33:27 9 he had left AutoZone, correct?
04:33:29 10 A. Yes. 04:33:29 11 Q. And that Skype session lasted less than two
04:33:32 12 hours, didn't it?
04:33:34 13 A. An hour and a half. 04:33:35 14 Q. And then you next Skyped with Mr. almost two
04:33:39 15 years later in April of 2016?
04:33:43 16 A. April 2016, yes. 04:33:45 17 Q. And that video session lasted only about a half
04:33:48 18 an hour; is that right?
04:33:49 19 A. Correct. 04:33:49 20 Q. Now, you testified that you chose not to perform 04:33:54 21 any separate psychological testing of Mr. such as
04:33:59 22 submitting him to a written examination, correct?
04:34:03 23 A. I didn't request any psychological testing, 04:34:07 24 correct. 04:34:07 25 Q. So we don't have any tests or anything that we
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:34:11 1 can review to determine his consistency in that regard;
04:34:16 2 is that right?
04:34:16 3 A. We don't have any tests, no. They don't measure 04:34:19 4 consistency. 04:34:20 5 Q. Well, what we have here or your opinion is based 04:34:25 6 in large part on these three sessions that you had with
04:34:30 7 Mr. , correct?
04:34:31 8 A. And his medical records and his EEOC submission 04:34:36 9 and the declaration of his coworker. 04:34:39 10 Q. And we will talk about the medical records in a 04:34:45 11 moment. But is it your testimony that you are able to 04:34:53 12 speak with someone for a little over two hours by video 04:34:59 13 and that that would constitute a comprehensive 04:35:03 14 examination of an individual -- 04:35:04 15 A. Yes.
04:35:04 16 Q. -- upon which you can base your diagnosis?
04:35:07 17 A. Correct. 04:35:08 18 Q. Okay. And your diagnosis was formed in large 04:35:12 19 part on accepting only Mr. 's version of events,
04:35:17 20 correct?
04:35:17 21 A. Well, it had to wait for corroboration from the 04:35:22 22 medical records. 04:35:23 23 Q. We'll talk about those in a minute. But you 04:35:25 24 would agree that Mr. has a very strong financial
04:35:30 25 interest in this litigation?
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:35:32 1 A. I don't know how strong it is, but that wasn't 04:35:34 2 what my psychiatric exam was focused on. 04:35:37 3 Q. You would agree, though, in all of your years of 04:35:42 4 treating -- I'm sorry, of being an expert witness in 04:35:46 5 trial that typically what -- the reason a person brings
04:35:49 6 a lawsuit is to get money?
04:35:52 7 A. Well, that's part of it. Some people bring 04:35:55 8 lawsuits to try to get -- assert their rights or get 04:36:00 9 justice or get some kind of closure about an injury that 04:36:05 10 they feel was inflicted on them. And money is a 04:36:08 11 consideration as well, sure. 04:36:10 12 Q. And it's typically the primary consideration,
04:36:13 13 isn't it?
04:36:14 14 MS. HOULDING: Objection. Lacks -- 04:36:17 15 THE COURT: Sustained.
04:36:18 16 By Ms. Kern:
04:36:18 17 Q. You would agree that at least in your experience 04:36:20 18 you've found cases where people who have pending 04:36:23 19 lawsuits are more prone to exaggerating their symptoms 04:36:26 20 than someone who does not have a financial interest in
04:36:29 21 the litigation?
04:36:30 22 A. I've seen that, yes. 04:36:31 23 Q. Okay. And speaking of exaggerating symptoms, 04:36:38 24 you're aware Mr. has given testimony in the trial 04:36:42 25 that being sexually assaulted by Ms. Atkinson was worse
Goldstein - Cross-Exam
04:36:45 1 than being shot at?
04:36:46 2 MS. HOULDING: I'm going to object to the 04:36:48 3 argumentative nature of that question, the initial part 04:36:52 4 of the question. 04:36:54 5 THE COURT: Yes, that's sustained.
04:36:57 6 By Ms. Kern:
04:36:57 7 Q. Are you aware, Dr. Goldstein, that Mr. has 04:37:00 8 given sworn testimony to this jury that he believed or 04:37:04 9 he described the sexual -- alleged sexual assault of Ms.
04:37:09 10 Atkinson to be worse than being shot at?
04:37:13 11 A. The question, am I aware of it?
04:37:15 12 Q. Yes. 04:37:16 13 A. Not until you mentioned it, no.
04:37:17 14 Q. Would you consider that to be an exaggeration?
04:37:22 15 A. Well, sometimes psychological injuries are worse 04:37:24 16 than physical injuries and more lasting. 04:37:28 17 Q. Would you agree, Dr. Goldstein, that if a person 04:37:33 18 withholds critical information that that may make your
04:37:37 19 opinion or diagnosis less reliable?
04:37:40 20 A. If they withhold information?
04:37:42 21 Q. Yes.
04:37:42 22 A. Withhold it from you?
04:37:44 23 Q. From you. 04:37:45 24 A. It might, or it might depend on the facts that 04:37:50 25 underlie their withholding it.
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:37:52 1 Q. Did Mr. ever tell you that he taught
04:37:57 2 self-defense classes?
04:37:58 3 A. No. 04:37:59 4 Q. Did he ever tell you that he taught classes in
04:38:01 5 the use of firearms?
04:38:02 6 A. No. 04:38:02 7 Q. Now, did Mr. ever tell you that he was
04:38:06 8 diagnosed with cancer?
04:38:09 9 MS. HOULDING: Objection. 04:38:10 10 A. He never was, no. 04:38:13 11 THE COURT: Objection overruled. You can 04:38:17 12 answer that question. 04:38:18 13 A. As far as I know, he never told me that. And as 04:38:22 14 far as I know, he never was. 04:38:24 15 Q. And if you learned that Mr. told his 04:38:26 16 coworkers that he had been diagnosed with cancer, that 04:38:30 17 would certainly be something you'd need to learn more
04:38:32 18 about, correct?
04:38:33 19 A. If he did, it might. Although I believe he 04:38:36 20 denied that. 04:38:39 21 Q. Were you aware, Dr. Goldstein, that Mr. 04:38:46 22 never reported any of this alleged sexual harassment to
04:38:49 23 the human resources manager at AutoZone?
04:38:52 24 A. I -- you mean directly?
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:38:55 1 A. As far as I know, I don't believe he did, no. 04:38:58 2 Q. Did you also know that since 2011 Mr. has
04:39:03 3 been a certified trainer of sexual harassment classes?
04:39:09 4 A. I have no knowledge of that, no.
04:39:12 5 Q. He didn't tell you that?
04:39:13 6 A. No. 04:39:13 7 Q. And that in connection with his teachings that 04:39:19 8 Mr. instructs his students to contact human 04:39:22 9 resources to report sexual harassment; were you aware of
04:39:28 10 that?
04:39:29 11 A. No. 04:39:29 12 Q. Knowing that Mr. has trained people to 04:39:32 13 report alleged sexual harassment to human resources,
04:39:35 14 don't you find it odd that he never did that here?
04:39:39 15 A. Again, I'm not concerned with and I never really 04:39:42 16 was that focused on the details about whether or not he 04:39:49 17 was sexually harassed or was not. 04:39:52 18 Q. Part of the data that you have relied on, and you 04:39:56 19 talked a little bit about it in direct examination, part 04:39:59 20 of the data that you relied on in concluding your 04:40:05 21 diagnosis was that you reviewed Mr. 's medical
04:40:08 22 records?
04:40:08 23 A. Yes. 04:40:10 24 Q. And the reason that you reviewed Mr. Ward's 04:40:13 25 medical records was because in forming your opinion, you
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:40:17 1 try to get as much objective information as possible,
04:40:22 2 and medical records are certainly a piece of that?
04:40:26 3 A. Yes, they are. 04:40:27 4 Q. And also one of the reasons that you review Mr. 04:40:31 5 Ward's medical records and rely on them was to gauge how 04:40:34 6 consistent or inconsistent Mr. was in relaying
04:40:38 7 information to you?
04:40:42 8 A. No, I just wanted to find out what he had told 04:40:45 9 his doctors who are actually treating him. 04:40:47 10 Q. You would agree that his medical records were 04:40:50 11 another good collateral source of information you should
04:40:54 12 use in forming your diagnosis or opinion?
04:40:56 13 A. Yes. 04:40:57 14 Q. And that these medical records could, in fact, 04:41:00 15 corroborate or contradict the statements that Mr. Ward
04:41:04 16 made to you?
04:41:04 17 A. Correct. 04:41:10 18 Q. Now, if it came to your attention that Mr. 04:41:12 19 had lied to any of his medical providers, that might 04:41:15 20 also change your opinion that you've rendered in this
04:41:18 21 case, wouldn't it?
04:41:19 22 A. If he had lied?
04:41:21 23 Q. Yes. 04:41:21 24 A. Well, it might if he had deliberately lied, yes. 04:41:24 25 Q. And as part of rendering your diagnosis or
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:41:28 1 opinion that you've given in this case, you did review 04:41:31 2 the medical records of Mr. Ward by Dr. Traylor and Dr.
04:41:41 3 Nichols?
04:41:41 4 A. Yes. 04:41:42 5 Q. In fact, there were inconsistencies with what Mr. 04:41:46 6 Ward told Dr. Traylor compared to what he told Dr.
04:41:51 7 Nichols?
04:41:53 8 MS. HOULDING: Objection. 04:41:54 9 A. I don't recall exactly. I -- 04:41:54 10 THE COURT: Sir, when there's an objection, 04:41:58 11 allow me to make a decision before you answer. 04:42:00 12 Sustained.
04:42:04 13 By Ms. Kern:
04:42:04 14 Q. When you reviewed the medical records of Dr. 04:42:07 15 Traylor and Dr. Nichols, did you see any inconsistencies
04:42:11 16 in what Mr. had told either doctor?
04:42:15 17 A. I don't recall. 04:42:16 18 Q. I'd like to show you what has been previously 04:42:19 19 marked as Defendant's Exhibit 59. Do you recognize this 04:42:33 20 as being one of the medical records of Mr. that you
04:42:35 21 reviewed in forming your opinions in this case?
04:42:37 22 A. I don't recall it, but I definitely reviewed it 04:42:41 23 at some point. 04:42:43 24 MS. KERN: I'd like to move for admission, 04:42:45 25 Your Honor, of Defendant Exhibit 59. I don't believe
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:42:48 1 it's objected to. 04:42:49 2 MS. HOULDING: There's no objection. 04:42:51 3 THE COURT: All right. You may. 04:43:10 4 (Whereupon Defendant's Exhibit 59 is 04:38:23 5 admitted into evidence.)
04:38:23 6 By Ms. Kern:
04:43:11 7 Q. You see here, Mr. , that it's reported -- I'm 04:43:14 8 sorry, Dr. Goldstein, that it's reported that Mr. Ward 04:43:18 9 told this particular doctor that he had been a former
04:43:21 10 smoker and had quit back in 2008?
04:43:24 11 A. Yes. 04:43:24 12 MS. HOULDING: Objection to the extent that 04:43:27 13 a report -- 04:43:28 14 THE COURT: One moment. 04:43:38 15 Overruled.
04:43:41 16 By Ms. Kern:
04:43:42 17 Q. Is that what the record states, Dr. Goldstein?
04:43:43 18 A. Yes. It says, "Former smoker. Quit 2008." 04:43:47 19 Q. And if we go to Defendant's Exhibit 60, which 04:43:54 20 I'll show you, it's a medical record of Dr. Nichols 04:43:59 21 dated August 27, 2013. 04:44:05 22 A. Okay. 04:44:06 23 MS. KERN: And I'll move to introduce that 04:44:08 24 too, Your Honor. I don't believe there's an objection.
04:44:10 25 MS. HOULDING: There's no objection.
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:44:11 1 THE COURT: All right. 04:38:21 2 (Whereupon Defendant's Exhibit 60 is 04:38:23 3 admitted into evidence.)
04:44:16 4 By Ms. Kern:
04:44:16 5 Q. And you see in that particular medical record, 04:44:19 6 Dr. Goldstein, that Mr. was asked the same question 04:44:23 7 as he was asked by Dr. Traylor regarding his tobacco
04:44:29 8 use, and his response was different; was it not?
04:44:32 9 A. Yes. 04:44:32 10 MS. HOULDING: Objection. Assumes facts not 04:44:35 11 in evidence. 04:44:35 12 THE COURT: Sustained.
04:44:36 13 By Ms. Kern:
04:44:36 14 Q. Does the record state that Mr. Ward was never a
04:44:39 15 smoker?
04:44:40 16 A. Yes. 04:44:40 17 Q. Which is in contradiction to what Dr. Traylor's
04:44:46 18 record reflected that we talked about just a minute ago?
04:44:48 19 A. It's an apparent contradiction or 04:44:51 20 misunderstanding, yes. 04:44:55 21 Q. Would you agree with me that it's an
04:44:58 22 inconsistency?
04:45:00 23 A. It might be. Or it might be a misunderstanding. 04:45:03 24 Q. Did you ever bother to ask for more information
04:45:06 25 to get to the bottom of this inconsistency?
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:45:08 1 A. In my most recent exam I asked him about whether 04:45:13 2 he was ever a smoker; and he said, no, he chewed 04:45:16 3 tobacco. So somebody may have misunderstood what use of 04:45:19 4 tobacco is referring to. If he was never a smoker and 04:45:24 5 chewed tobacco, then it probably would be consistent.
04:45:28 6 Q. Do you expect medical providers, when they're
04:45:31 7 seeing their patients, to record information accurately?
04:45:35 8 MS. HOULDING: Objection. Beyond the scope. 04:45:38 9 THE COURT: Sustained.
04:45:40 10 By Ms. Kern:
04:45:40 11 Q. You didn't bother to ask Mr. Ward about why these
04:45:43 12 two records are different; is that fair?
04:45:46 13 A. I have absolutely no recollection of the issue, 04:45:53 14 no. 04:45:53 15 Q. Now, in your video sessions with Mr. in 2014 04:45:57 16 and 2016, he told you that he couldn't sleep and that he 04:46:01 17 had lost 15 pounds as a result of the alleged
04:46:05 18 harassment. Do you recall him telling you that?
04:46:07 19 MS. HOULDING: Objection, compound.
04:46:11 20 By Ms. Kern:
04:46:11 21 Q. I'll break it up. In your Skype sessions with 04:46:14 22 Mr. in 2014 and '16, he told you, number one, that
04:46:17 23 he had trouble sleeping?
04:46:18 24 A. Yes. 04:46:19 25 Q. And number two that he had lost 15 pounds as a
Goldstein - Cross-Exam
04:46:24 1 result of the alleged sexual harassment?
04:46:25 2 A. I don't believe he ever told me he lost 15 pounds 04:46:31 4 pounds. 04:46:32 5 Q. In the context of him complaining about sexual
04:46:34 6 harassment, correct?
04:46:35 7 A. No. During my history taking, one of my 04:46:38 8 questions I usually ask is: Have you gained or lost any 04:46:42 9 weight? He said he lost 15 pounds. 04:46:44 10 Q. And you simply accepted these statements by him
04:46:46 11 as true?
04:46:47 12 A. No, I just reported it in my report that he lost 04:46:51 13 15 pounds. 04:46:51 14 Q. Well, you had the medical records at your 04:46:54 15 disposal to check to see whether or not, in fact, his 04:46:57 16 statements to you regarding his weight loss were
04:47:00 17 consistent with his medical records, correct?
04:47:03 18 A. Yes. 04:47:04 19 Q. And did you bother to review the medical records 04:47:15 20 to determine whether or not Mr. was being honest
04:47:17 21 with you when he said that he had loss the 15 pounds?
04:47:20 22 A. I didn't because it was a non-issue. It was of 04:47:24 23 no importance to my diagnosis. 04:47:26 24 Q. If it wasn't important to your diagnosis, Dr. 04:47:29 25 Goldstein, why did you discuss his weight at all in your
Goldstein - Cross-Exam
04:47:32 1 report?
04:47:32 2 A. As I already said, it's kind of a routine 04:47:35 3 question when you get a history from a patient. 04:47:39 4 Q. Would it concern you, Dr. Goldstein, if Mr. Ward 04:47:45 5 had made misrepresentations to you about his weight loss
04:47:49 6 in the sessions that you had with him?
04:47:51 7 A. Well, you keep calling them lies or 04:47:54 8 misrepresentations. I don't agree with it the way you 04:47:57 9 characterize it. 04:47:58 10 Q. Would you expect that Mr. would be honest 04:48:02 11 with his doctors when he's reporting weight loss or
04:48:06 12 weight gain?
04:48:07 13 A. Yeah, I think he would not be dishonest about it.
04:48:10 14 What reason could he possibly have?
04:48:13 15 Q. Well, let's look at Defendant's Exhibit 62. 04:48:25 16 MS. KERN: Your Honor, this exhibit has 04:48:28 17 already been published to the jury.
04:48:31 18 By Ms. Kern:
04:48:31 19 Q. Now, in this particular exhibit, Dr. Goldstein,
04:48:36 20 you see where it talks about weight gain or weight loss?
04:48:44 21 A. Where is that? I'm sorry. 04:49:09 22 Q. And you see where it talks about his weight, and
04:49:12 23 it said he weighed 234 pounds?
04:49:15 24 A. I'm sorry. What date is this?
04:49:17 25 Q. 10/15 of '13. And he weighed in at 234 pounds?
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:49:24 1 A. That's correct. 04:49:25 2 Q. Okay. Now, if you look at Defendant's Exhibit 04:49:46 3 67, which was another medical record of his that you had 04:49:53 4 to review -- 04:49:55 5 MS. KERN: And this is already in, Your 04:49:55 6 Honor.
04:49:57 7 By Ms. Kern:
04:49:57 8 Q. This particular exhibit also reflects Mr. 's
04:50:01 9 weight. Do you see that?
04:50:02 10 A. Yes. 04:50:03 11 Q. And, in fact, Mr. had not lost any weight. 04:50:07 12 In fact, he had gained approximately seven pounds
04:50:11 13 because here he weighed 241 pounds?
04:50:14 14 A. Yes. Correct. 04:50:15 15 Q. Now, you didn't bother to look at any of the 04:50:20 16 weigh-in information that Mr. had in his medical 04:50:25 17 records despite the fact that he represented to you that
04:50:27 18 he had lost 15 pounds?
04:50:29 19 MS. HOULDING: I'm just going to object as 04:50:31 20 asked and answered. 04:50:33 21 THE COURT: Overruled. 04:50:38 22 A. The question that's pending? I'm sorry. 04:50:43 23 Q. You didn't bother to check to see whether Mr. 04:50:48 24 Ward was being honest with you when he told you he had
04:50:50 25 lost 15 pounds?
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:50:51 1 A. Again, I don't accept your characterization that 04:50:55 2 he was being dishonest. He provided information that 04:50:57 3 may have been mistaken on a non-issue that I wasn't 04:51:01 4 concerned about investigating in detail. 04:51:07 5 Q. The medical records that we just reviewed are 04:51:10 6 contrary to what Mr. told you during his
04:51:13 7 examination, correct?
04:51:14 8 A. That's correct. 04:51:14 9 MS. HOULDING: Objection, Your Honor. 04:51:19 10 Q. Now -- 04:51:20 11 THE COURT: One moment. 04:51:23 12 The answer can stand.
04:51:26 13 By Ms. Kern:
04:51:27 14 Q. Unlike your video examinations with Mr. , Dr. 04:51:33 15 Nichols and Dr. Traylor were actually physically present 04:51:38 16 when they conducted their examinations of him as far as
04:51:40 17 you know?
04:51:41 18 A. Since they did physicals, I would assume that's 04:51:45 19 correct. 04:51:48 20 Q. Did you understand that Dr. Traylor was Mr.
04:51:51 21 Ward's primary care physician?
04:51:52 22 A. Yes.
04:51:55 23 Q. Which are also referred to as PCPs?
04:51:58 24 A. PCP, right. 04:52:00 25 Q. Now, Mr. Ward reported to you during your
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:52:05 1 evaluations that during the time period of June 2013 he 04:52:10 2 was the ongoing victim of sexual assaults by Ms.
04:52:15 3 Atkinson, correct?
04:52:16 4 A. Did you say starting in June?
04:52:22 5 Q. No, sir. It was ongoing in June?
04:52:24 6 A. Yes, it was ongoing in June. 04:52:26 7 Q. So let's look at Defendant's Exhibit 59, which is 04:52:32 8 a medical record reflecting Mr. 's visit with Dr. 04:52:48 9 Traylor. 04:52:48 10 This reflects a visit that Mr. Ward had with his 04:53:08 11 primary care physician on June 24, 2013. Do you see
04:53:13 12 that?
04:53:13 13 A. Uh-huh. 04:53:14 14 Q. And this would have been during or right in the
04:53:18 15 midst of these alleged sexual assaults, correct?
04:53:21 16 A. Yes. 04:53:21 17 Q. And it states here under anxiety -- under 04:53:41 18 "Psychiatric" -- do you see that in the top part of page
04:53:44 19 2?
04:53:45 20 A. Yes. 04:53:45 21 Q. It says, "Psychiatric not present: Anxiety and
04:53:52 22 depression"?
04:53:53 23 A. Yes. 04:53:54 24 Q. Now, when you reviewed Mr. 's medical records 04:54:00 25 before issuing your opinion, you didn't ask Mr. Ward for
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:54:06 1 any further information as to why he communicated this
04:54:09 2 to his PCP; is that right?
04:54:11 3 A. I think -- 04:54:12 4 MS. HOULDING: Objection. 04:54:13 5 A. This was his urologist, I think. 04:54:16 6 THE COURT: One moment.
04:54:26 7 The basis for your objection?
04:54:28 8 MS. HOULDING: Well, if I understood the 04:54:30 9 question correctly, that it assumes facts not in 04:54:33 10 evidence, that he communicated something to the doctor. 04:54:36 11 THE COURT: Yes, sustained.
04:54:41 12 By Ms. Kern:
04:54:41 13 Q. When you -- is it fair to say that this medical 04:54:44 14 record reflects that no anxiety or depression were
04:54:49 15 present during this particular visit with his doctor?
04:54:52 16 A. That's what the note says, yes. 04:54:59 17 Q. In fact, Dr. Goldstein, in the medical records 04:55:03 18 that you reviewed of Mr. 's office visits to his 04:55:08 19 doctors in March, April, May, and June of 2013, the same 04:55:14 20 was recorded, that there was no anxiety or depression
04:55:17 21 present; do you recall that?
04:55:19 22 A. Yes. He never told any of his doctors about it. 04:55:22 23 Yes. 04:55:23 24 Q. And again, this would have been during the time 04:55:25 25 that Mr. claims that he was being subjected to
Goldstein - Cross-Exam
04:55:28 1 daily sexual assaults?
04:55:30 2 A. Yes. 04:55:32 3 Q. All right. Let's look also at Defendant's 04:55:35 4 Exhibit 60. And this was a visit that Mr. had with 04:55:38 5 his doctor on August 27 of 2013. And you'll see, Dr. 04:55:59 6 Goldstein, that it's also reported in this particular 04:56:01 7 medical record under "Psychiatric not present: Anxiety
04:56:07 8 and depression"?
04:56:09 9 A. Correct.
04:56:10 10 Q. Where the red arrow is?
04:56:12 11 A. Yes. 04:56:13 12 Q. And this office visit with Dr. Nichols was only 04:56:22 13 about ten days after his last alleged sexual assault by
04:56:27 14 Ms. Atkinson, correct?
04:56:28 15 A. Yes. Correct. 04:56:30 16 MS. HOULDING: I'm sorry -- withdrawn.
04:56:34 17 By Ms. Kern:
04:56:35 18 Q. Let's look also then at a medical record of Mr. 04:56:39 19 Ward when he went and saw his PCP on October 15 of 2013. 04:56:46 20 That's Defendant's Exhibit 62. And this was a visit 04:56:55 21 that -- I'm sorry, October 15, 2013. And you'll also 04:57:00 22 see in this particular record, Dr. Goldstein, that under 04:57:09 23 "Psychiatric," that not present was "anxiety, change in
04:57:14 24 sleep pattern, and mood changes"?
04:57:15 25 A. Correct.
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:57:17 1 Q. And that would mean that Mr. Ward, once again, 04:57:21 2 didn't report any anxiety or change in sleep patterns to
04:57:27 3 his PCP, Dr. Traylor, during that time period?
04:57:32 4 MS. HOULDING: Objection. Lack of 04:57:32 5 foundation.
04:57:32 6 By Ms. Kern:
04:57:35 7 Q. At least according to the medical records, he did
04:57:38 8 not make such a record?
04:57:39 9 THE COURT: Sustained.
04:57:40 10 By Ms. Kern:
04:57:40 11 Q. According to the medical record -- strike that. 04:57:48 12 Now, this particular visit with Dr. Traylor that 04:57:53 13 we just talked about, this occurred just shortly before
04:57:57 14 he saw Dr. Kelley; is that right?
04:58:03 15 A. That's correct. 04:58:05 16 Q. Okay. Now, you reviewed on direct examination 04:58:09 17 there was an ER visit that Mr. had made on 04:58:15 18 September 15 of 2013. Do you recall talking about that 04:58:19 19 ER visit? I believe it was Plaintiff's Exhibit 25. 04:58:23 20 A. Yes, I do.
04:58:27 21 Q. Now, as far as you're concerned and your review 04:58:32 22 of the medical records, you're not aware that Mr. Ward
04:58:35 23 ever visited an ER in March of 2013?
04:58:41 24 A. Not to my knowledge, no.
04:58:43 25 Q. Or April of 2013?
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 04:58:46 1 A. I'm not aware of that, no.
04:58:48 2 Q. Or May or June of 2013?
04:58:51 3 A. Correct.
04:58:52 4 Q. Or even July or August of 2013, correct?
04:58:55 5 A. Yes. 04:58:56 6 Q. And that was the time period that he claimed that
04:58:58 7 he had been sexually assaulted by Ms. Atkinson?
04:59:03 8 A. Yes. 04:59:04 9 Q. Now, we do have a record that indicates, and I 04:59:07 10 think we can put on the screen, that he was, in fact, 04:59:10 11 admitted to the ER on -- in September of 2013, and this
04:59:15 12 would have been after he left AutoZone, correct?
04:59:17 13 A. That would have been afterwards, yes. 04:59:22 14 Q. And -- strike that. 04:59:24 15 Okay. So I want to talk some more about this 04:59:27 16 particular ER visit because you talked about it on 04:59:30 17 direct examination. 04:59:42 18 Let me ask you, Dr. Goldstein, would you agree
04:59:52 19 with me that symptoms of sleep apnea include fatigue?
04:59:59 20 A. I didn't hear the last word. 05:00:00 21 Q. I'm sorry. Would you agree with me that symptoms
05:00:03 22 of sleep apnea include fatigue?
05:00:07 23 A. Yes, they often do.
05:00:11 24 Q. Insomnia?
05:00:13 25 A. They include -- they're separate sleep
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 05:00:17 1 conditions, but about 25 to 30 percent of sleep apnea 05:00:22 2 patients have insomnia also.
05:00:24 3 Q. It might also include nightmares?
05:00:27 4 A. Occasionally.
05:00:28 5 Q. Trouble falling asleep?
05:00:30 6 A. It's usually awakening from sleep.
05:00:34 7 Q. Depression?
05:00:35 8 A. Sometimes, yes.
05:00:36 9 Q. Irritability?
05:00:38 10 A. Sometimes.
05:00:40 11 Q. Mood swings?
05:00:42 12 A. Sometimes. 05:00:46 13 Q. And you're aware, Dr. Goldstein, that, in fact,
05:00:49 14 Mr. suffered from sleep apnea?
05:00:52 15 A. He was diagnosed with sleep apnea at some point, 05:00:55 16 yes. 05:00:55 17 Q. And that he was told to wear a CPAP and did not
05:00:59 18 do so?
05:01:00 19 A. I believe he used it for a while but stopped 05:01:04 20 using it. 05:01:04 21 Q. Well, according to this medical record that you 05:01:08 22 reviewed, he had not used his CPAP even though he was
05:01:11 23 told to do so, correct?
05:01:14 24 A. He told me he stopped using it, which I assume 05:01:17 25 meant he used it for a while.
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 05:01:19 1 Q. And a lot of the symptoms that we just talked 05:01:22 2 about that come along with sleep apnea are some of the 05:01:25 3 symptoms he was relating to you such as irritability,
05:01:29 4 mood swings, trouble falling asleep, correct?
05:01:32 5 A. Well, trouble falling asleep is not usually part 05:01:35 6 of sleep apnea. You wake up in the middle of the night. 05:01:39 7 Q. Sir, Mr. complained to you that he was
05:01:42 8 suffering from irritability, depression, nightmares?
05:01:49 9 A. Yes. 05:01:50 10 Q. And these are all things that could be caused by
05:01:52 11 sleep apnea as well, correct?
05:01:55 12 A. It's possible. 05:01:56 13 Q. Now, you talked a little bit about the 05:01:58 14 cardiologist, Dr. Kelley. And he saw Dr. Kelley, I 05:02:02 15 believe, about a month after this ER visit, and that was 05:02:06 16 Plaintiff's Exhibit 26. And Dr. Kelley indicated that 05:02:14 17 there was a musculoskeletal component to Mr. 's
05:02:21 18 situation; is that right?
05:02:22 19 A. Yes. 05:02:22 20 Q. And a musculoskeletal issues refers to a strained
05:02:27 21 muscle?
05:02:28 22 A. To a what muscle?
05:02:29 23 Q. A strained or pulled muscle?
05:02:31 24 A. It usually refers to muscle spasm or tension. 05:02:34 25 Q. Okay. And Valium is used to treat muscle spasms;
Goldstein - Cross-Exam
05:02:38 1 is that right?
05:02:39 2 A. Valium can be used to treat muscle spasms, right. 05:02:43 3 Q. And you're aware that Mr. was not prescribed 05:02:46 4 Valium until over a month after he left AutoZone; is
05:02:50 5 that your recollection of the records?
05:02:52 6 A. Correct. 05:02:52 7 Q. And you're also aware, Dr. Goldstein, that if a 05:02:58 8 person is on Valium, they're not supposed to be driving
05:03:02 9 or operating heavy machinery?
05:03:05 10 A. That's not true. Otherwise there would be -- 05:03:08 11 half the cars on the road wouldn't be driving. 05:03:10 12 Q. Were you aware that Mr. was operating a tow
05:03:13 13 truck at the time that he was taking Valium?
05:03:15 14 A. Yes. Valium is not as widely prescribed, and 05:03:20 15 there's no prohibition about driving on Valium unless 05:03:25 16 you're on very high doses. 05:03:27 17 Q. And you're also aware in reviewing Mr. 's 05:03:30 18 medical records that he began taking Cialis back in
05:03:33 19 January of 2012?
05:03:34 20 A. He began what?
05:03:35 21 Q. He began taking Cialis back in January of 2012?
05:03:40 22 A. I know he took it at various times. 05:03:42 23 Q. And Cialis is often prescribed for erectile
05:03:46 24 dysfunction; is that correct?
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 05:03:48 1 Q. And you're also aware that he quit taking his
05:03:51 2 testosterone shots in July of 2013?
05:03:55 3 A. I don't recall when he stopped taking them. 05:03:57 4 Q. Well, you would agree that the fact that he 05:04:01 5 stopped taking his testosterone shots could be
05:04:05 6 attributed to a lack of libido, correct?
05:04:09 7 MS. HOULDING: Objection. Vague. 05:04:13 8 THE COURT: Overruled. 05:04:15 9 A. I don't see the relationship. 05:04:18 10 Q. So your testimony is that testosterone does not
05:04:24 11 contribute to one's libido?
05:04:27 12 A. It usually boosts one's libido. 05:04:31 13 Q. So if one stops taking testosterone, they could
05:04:35 14 lose libido?
05:04:36 15 A. It depends what the starting point was. 05:04:39 16 Q. Now, in the records that we've talked about, 05:04:43 17 which were Defendant's Exhibit 59, 60, 62, where they 05:04:49 18 reflect that no psychiatric -- under "Psychiatric" that 05:04:53 19 there was no anxiety or depression present, you would 05:04:56 20 agree with me that these records are in direct 05:05:01 21 contradiction to what Mr. reported to you when you
05:05:06 22 conducted your psychiatric examination, correct?
05:05:09 23 A. Not at all. He reported to me that he didn't 05:05:12 24 want to discuss it with his doctors, so he didn't tell 05:05:15 25 them about it because he was too ashamed and felt too
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 05:05:19 1 embarrassed to get into the subject and discuss it with 05:05:23 2 his doctors. That's exactly what he told me. 05:05:30 3 Q. Do you recall we discussed this same topic in 05:05:35 4 your deposition given back two years ago? I'm going to 05:05:43 5 direct your attention to page 105, line 9.
05:05:46 6 A. Okay. 05:05:50 7 Q. Just let me know when you're there, Dr. 05:05:53 8 Goldstein. 05:05:53 9 A. Yes. 05:05:53 10 Q. I'll read the question: 05:05:55 11 "Did he tell you that he, in fact, was anxious 05:05:58 12 and depressed in June of 2013?" 05:06:01 13 A. Yes. 05:06:02 14 Q. And your answer was, "In June?"
05:06:05 15 And I responded, "Correct."
05:06:06 16 What was your answer, line 13?
05:06:08 17 A. Line 13, "Yes, he told me that during that whole 05:06:12 18 period he was in distress and emotionally upset." 05:06:18 19 Q. And my question to you then was, "Which is at 05:06:21 20 odds with what he reported to his doctors in June of 05:06:24 21 2013, correct?" 05:06:25 22 A. "Yes."
05:06:26 23 Q. And your response was what?
05:06:35 24 Line 17. 05:06:35 25 A. "Yes".
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 05:06:39 1 Q. I went on to ask you, "And it's also at odds with 05:06:43 2 what he reported to his doctor in August of 2013?"
05:06:46 3 And your response?
05:06:47 4 A. "Yes." 05:06:47 5 Q. And my next question: "And it's at odds with 05:06:50 6 what he reported to his doctor in October of 2013?"
05:06:52 7 And your response was?
05:06:53 8 A. "Yes." 05:06:57 9 Q. And you would agree, Dr. Goldstein, wouldn't you, 05:07:08 10 that Mr. 's in-office visits with Dr. Traylor and 05:07:14 11 Dr. Nichols were much closer to the events at issue than
05:07:20 12 your first Skype session with him?
05:07:22 13 A. Correct. 05:07:23 14 Q. All right. Let's take a look at Mr. Ward's 05:07:26 15 medical records from his office visit with Dr. Nichols 05:07:30 16 in March of 2014. This is Exhibit 66. And this also, 05:07:42 17 Dr. Goldstein, was part of the records that you had on
05:07:44 18 hand and reviewed before rendering your diagnosis?
05:07:47 19 A. Yes. 05:07:47 20 Q. And in Defendant's Exhibit 66 it is also recorded 05:07:58 21 under psychiatric that anxiety and depression were not
05:08:02 22 present; is that right?
05:08:07 23 A. That's correct. Yes. 05:08:08 24 Q. And this office visit would have taken place 05:08:11 25 approximately just a couple of months before you had
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 05:08:18 1 your first psychiatric examination of him by video,
05:08:21 2 right?
05:08:21 3 A. Yes. Correct. 05:08:23 4 Q. And then if we look -- well, so let's talk about 05:08:32 5 the first psychiatric examination that you had of Mr. 05:08:38 6 Ward. And again, that was back in 2014. You would 05:08:44 7 agree even that Mr. was not anxious or depressed 05:08:50 8 the day that you conducted your psychiatric examination
05:08:53 9 of him, was he?
05:08:54 10 A. On that particular date?
05:08:55 11 Q. Yes. 05:08:56 12 A. Not that I noticed at that time, no. 05:08:59 13 Q. Now, you testified that Mr. would be -- was 05:09:08 14 too ashamed to talk about his allegations of sexual 05:09:11 15 harassment and was very self-conscious, which is why he 05:09:17 16 didn't tell his treating physicians. Do you recall that
05:09:20 17 testimony?
05:09:21 18 A. Yes. 05:09:21 19 Q. Now, it's fair to say that Mr. certainly 05:09:27 20 didn't have any problems telling you about the alleged
05:09:30 21 sexual harassment, did he?
05:09:32 22 A. Well, I'm the first psychiatrist that he'd ever 05:09:36 23 seen, and I assumed that he knew that it was something 05:09:39 24 that I might be more inclined to understand than his 05:09:43 25 urologist or his surgeon or his cardiologist or his
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 05:09:48 1 primary care doctor. 05:09:50 2 MS. KERN: Your Honor, I would like to 05:09:52 3 strike as his answer being non-responsive and re-ask the 05:09:56 4 question.
05:09:56 5 By Ms. Kern:
05:09:56 6 Q. The question is: According to you, Mr. Ward did 05:09:59 7 not have a problem telling you about the alleged sexual
05:10:02 8 harassment, did he?
05:10:03 9 A. I answered. And I answered why I thought he did 05:10:07 10 not have a problem telling me about it. 05:10:08 11 Q. So he did not have a problem telling you; is that
05:10:11 12 your testimony?
05:10:12 13 A. I assumed that it was difficult, but he did tell 05:10:15 14 me about it. 05:10:16 15 Q. Were you aware, Dr. Goldstein, that after Mr. 05:10:20 16 Ward left AutoZone that he approached various male
05:10:30 17 coworkers to talk about the alleged sexual harassment?
05:10:36 18 A. People who were witnesses or Knew what was going 05:10:40 19 on? I know about some of that, yes. 05:10:42 20 Q. Okay. So you just told us that he was too 05:10:47 21 ashamed and became very self-conscious when he would 05:10:50 22 talk about these allegations. Don't you find that 05:10:53 23 contradictory to his seeking out people to talk to about
05:10:57 24 it?
05:10:58 25 A. He was already talking to people that knew what
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 05:11:01 1 had been going on. He wasn't telling it to new people. 05:11:04 2 Q. Okay. So certainly if he was ashamed or 05:11:08 3 self-conscious about these allegations, he would not
05:11:11 4 have done that, correct?
05:11:13 5 MS. HOULDING: Objection. Lacks foundation. 05:11:16 6 THE COURT: Sustained.
05:11:18 7 By Ms. Kern:
05:11:18 8 Q. Were you aware that -- strike that question. 05:11:22 9 Now, three months after your first video session 05:11:31 10 with Mr. conducted in May of 2014, Mr. visited 05:11:38 11 Dr. Nichols again. And if we could look at Defendant 05:11:41 12 Exhibit 67. And this, again, Dr. Goldstein, was part of 05:11:48 13 the records that you reviewed before rendering your
05:11:50 14 diagnosis?
05:11:50 15 A. Yes. 05:11:54 16 Q. And this is already in evidence as well. But if 05:11:57 17 I could turn your attention to the first part of the 05:12:00 18 document, you'll see there once again it's reflected 05:12:03 19 that there was no anxiety or depression noted during
05:12:06 20 that particular visit as well, correct?
05:12:08 21 A. Yes. Correct. 05:12:13 22 Q. And you did review this particular document
05:12:15 23 before you gave your diagnosis in this case?
05:12:17 24 A. Yes. 05:12:18 25 Q. Let's look at Defendant's Exhibit 68. And this
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 05:12:22 1 is a medical record of Mr. 's office visit to his 05:12:25 2 PCP, his primary care physician, Dr. Traylor, dated 05:12:29 3 September 2, 2014. Was this particular --
05:12:34 4 MS. HOULDING: What page is this?
05:12:37 5 MS. KERN: Defendant's Exhibit 68.
05:12:40 6 By Ms. Kern:
05:12:40 7 Q. And you recognize this, Dr. Goldstein, as being 05:12:42 8 another medical record that you were provided and
05:12:45 9 reviewed before issuing your diagnosis in this case?
05:12:48 10 A. Yes. 05:12:49 11 Q. And here again, it's reflected that no anxiety or 05:12:58 12 depression or even change in sleep or mood patterns was
05:13:02 13 present on that particular day as well?
05:13:05 14 A. That's what it says, yes. 05:13:07 15 Q. All right. And then if we look at another 05:13:12 16 medical record, which I believe plaintiff's counsel has 05:13:15 17 also shown you on direct examination, Exhibit 70, which 05:13:19 18 is a medical record of Mr. 's in-person visit to his 05:13:22 19 primary care physician again, which was dated December 05:13:25 20 8, 2014. And you'll see that it's also noted in this 05:13:45 21 particular document that there was -- that anxiety, 05:13:50 22 change in sleep patterns and mood changes was not
05:13:53 23 present, correct?
05:13:54 24 A. Correct. 05:13:57 25 Q. Now, despite the medical records that we've
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 05:14:02 1 looked at where it indicates that no anxiety or 05:14:06 2 depression was present during these numerous visits, you 05:14:10 3 nevertheless concluded the exact diagnosis two years
05:14:14 4 after the fact, correct?
05:14:15 5 A. After the fact?
05:14:17 6 Q. You didn't render your diagnosis until 2016,
05:14:22 7 right?
05:14:24 8 A. I actually examined him in 2014. 05:14:29 9 Q. I thought that you issued your opinion on April 05:14:33 10 25 of 2016. 05:14:34 11 A. Yes. But that doesn't mean I didn't reach a 05:14:38 12 tentative diagnosis after my first exam. 05:14:40 13 Q. And you concluded in 2016 that despite the 05:14:45 14 medical records we've reviewed, that Mr. indeed
05:14:49 15 suffered from anxiety and depression?
05:14:51 16 A. Definitely, yes. 05:14:53 17 Q. All right. And your conclusions that you reached 05:14:59 18 after you Skyped with Mr. in 2014 and then two and
05:15:05 19 a half years later in 2016 were exactly the same?
05:15:10 20 A. Basically they were, yes. 05:15:12 21 Q. You didn't believe that -- in your expert opinion 05:15:17 22 it was -- you believed that his diagnosis had remained 05:15:22 23 completely unchanged during the two-and-a-half-year
05:15:25 24 period when you first examined him and the second?
05:15:28 25 A. There hadn't been any significant change, no.
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 05:15:32 1 Q. Now, you recently provided a supplemental report 05:15:36 2 to Mr. 's attorney based on a half-hour video 05:15:40 3 session that you held with Mr. Ward on April 8 of this
05:15:44 4 year; is that right?
05:15:45 5 A. Yes. Correct. 05:15:46 6 Q. And during this most recent video session of Mr. 05:15:53 7 Ward, you had not had any interaction with him for about
05:15:57 8 two years; is that fair?
05:15:59 9 A. That's correct. Yes. 05:16:02 10 Q. But you did note over the past two years he has 05:16:07 11 had some improvement in his marriage and that he's
05:16:10 12 become more social?
05:16:11 13 A. Yes. He had improvement in those two areas. 05:16:14 14 Q. But nevertheless, your diagnosis in 2018 remains
05:16:20 15 unchanged?
05:16:21 16 A. Correct. 05:16:23 17 Q. Now, you believe that Mr. continues to 05:16:27 18 suffer from a severe psychological condition five years
05:16:31 19 after he quit AutoZone?
05:16:33 20 A. Correct. 05:16:36 21 Q. Now, something has changed in your latest report, 05:16:41 22 though, isn't that right, with regard to your opinion of
05:16:46 23 Mr. 's primary care physician?
05:16:51 24 A. His primary care physician?
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 05:16:55 1 A. I'm not sure what you're referring to. 05:16:58 2 Q. Well, in your latest report, which is dated April 05:17:01 3 17 of 2018, you make a note about Mr. 's primary 05:17:09 4 care physician in the footnote 2. And you indicate that 05:17:17 5 primary care physicians have become the primary 05:17:21 6 psychiatric care physicians for a considerable number of 05:17:24 7 their patients. They provide mental health care and 05:17:28 8 treat a wide range of psychiatric conditions. Do you
05:17:30 9 see that?
05:17:31 10 A. Yes. That's definitely true. 05:17:33 11 Q. And do you recall, Dr. Goldstein, when we were 05:17:35 12 discussing Mr. 's medical records from Dr. Traylor 05:17:41 13 and Dr. Nichols, that it was your opinion that these 05:17:47 14 particular doctors were not competent to provide any
05:17:54 15 type of mental health care?
05:17:58 16 A. I never said that. I said that they were not -- 05:18:03 17 that Dr. Nichols -- Dr. Traylor, rather, was prescribing 05:18:09 18 Valium, which had been helpful for Mr. 's 05:18:13 19 psychiatric symptoms. 05:18:15 20 Q. Wasn't it your opinion when we discussed Dr. 05:18:18 21 Nichols and Dr. Traylor's treatment of Mr. that the 05:18:23 22 medical records showed that they didn't give a damn 05:18:26 23 about his psychiatric symptoms; and therefore, that
05:18:29 24 should be disregarded in the records?
05:18:31 25 A. I think I testified to that in relation to his
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 05:18:34 1 urologist. I said that they weren't -- you know, 05:18:39 2 urologists are not really that concerned about their 05:18:42 3 patient's emotional problems. They're more concerned 05:18:47 4 with their patient's prostatic problems. 05:18:51 5 Q. So it's still your belief that Mr. Ward's 05:18:56 6 urologist didn't give a damn about his psychiatric or
05:19:01 7 psychological condition?
05:19:02 8 A. I don't remember my exact words. I may have said 05:19:06 9 they don't give a damn about the psychiatric problems of 05:19:08 10 their patients. 05:19:10 11 Q. Well, you also didn't believe that Dr. Traylor 05:19:15 12 was in a position to assess his psychiatric or
05:19:23 13 psychological condition either; is that right?
05:19:25 14 MS. HOULDING: Objection. Lacks foundation. 05:19:27 15 THE COURT: Sustained.
05:19:31 16 THE WITNESS: May I answer?
05:19:32 17 THE COURT: No.
05:19:34 18 By Ms. Kern:
05:19:34 19 Q. Did you consider Dr. Traylor competent to
05:19:36 20 evaluate Mr. 's psychological condition?
05:19:41 21 A. I don't want to comment on his competency. I 05:19:44 22 just know that he gave him medication that was affording 05:19:49 23 him symptomatic relief. Dr. Traylor may not have been 05:19:53 24 aware what he was actually diagnosing or treating, but 05:19:58 25 he did give him medication that was helpful.
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 05:20:01 1 Q. Now, during your examination of Mr. you 05:20:03 2 specifically ruled out certain traumatic events that 05:20:06 3 occurred in his life as causing or even contributing to
05:20:11 4 your diagnosis; is that right?
05:20:13 5 A. In my deposition?
05:20:15 6 Q. In your report. 05:20:17 7 A. I don't remember if I ruled out traumatic events 05:20:21 8 in my report, but in my deposition I did. 05:20:24 9 Q. Okay. Well, you're aware that Mr. 's father 05:20:29 10 had passed away from cancer and that he had had an
05:20:32 11 intense brief reaction to that?
05:20:34 12 A. In 2003, yes. 05:20:37 13 Q. And that his mother had subsequently passed away
05:20:44 14 five years later in 2008 from a stroke?
05:20:46 15 A. Yes. 05:20:46 16 Q. And despite these events, your expert conclusion 05:20:50 17 was that his parents' passings had nothing to do with 05:20:54 18 the alleged psychiatric condition you claim he suffers
05:20:57 19 from today?
05:20:59 20 A. Yes. They had no relationship to the onset of 05:21:03 21 his psychiatric condition in 2013. Correct. 05:21:07 22 Q. Okay. And did Mr. relay to you the fact 05:21:13 23 that he had a brother-in-law who was killed unexpectedly
05:21:18 24 in 2013 when he was working for AutoZone?
05:21:26 25 I didn't see it noted in your report, which is
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 05:21:29 1 why I'm asking. 05:21:29 2 A. No, I don't think he mentioned his 05:21:32 3 brother-in-law's death. 05:21:34 4 Q. Would you agree with me that knowing that now 05:21:38 5 might have an impact on your diagnosis, the fact that he
05:21:42 6 lost someone unexpectedly in a very traumatic way?
05:21:45 7 A. It's possible. I don't know that it was a major 05:21:50 8 trauma in his life, but it's possible. 05:21:52 9 Q. Well, you all discussed the passing of his mother
05:21:56 10 and his father, correct?
05:21:58 11 A. The passing of his mother and father several 05:22:03 12 years previously I don't believe had any relationship to 05:22:08 13 his illness in 2013. 05:22:10 14 Q. Yes, sir. And he didn't bother to tell you that 05:22:14 15 in 2013 during the relevant time period that he had just
05:22:18 16 lost another relative unexpectedly?
05:22:21 17 A. He didn't mention it as a traumatic event in his 05:22:25 18 life, no. 05:22:25 19 Q. Wouldn't you consider this to be a critical piece 05:22:28 20 of information that you'd want to know before you gave
05:22:31 21 your diagnosis?
05:22:32 22 A. I had no way of knowing it, and he didn't mention 05:22:35 23 it as a significant traumatic event in his life. 05:22:38 24 Q. You had no way of knowing it because he never
05:22:40 25 told you, correct?
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 05:22:41 1 A. I couldn't know -- I couldn't know about it if he 05:22:44 2 didn't mention it, no. 05:22:46 3 Q. I want to talk to you, Dr. Goldstein -- and I'm 05:22:52 4 just about done, I promise -- about the recommendations 05:22:55 5 that you made to Mr. following your examinations of 05:23:00 6 him in May of 2016 -- I'm sorry, April 2016. You 05:23:10 7 recommended that Mr. see a social worker or a 05:23:14 8 psychologist once a week for a period of at least two
05:23:18 9 years; is that right?
05:23:19 10 A. That's in my report. That's not what I said to 05:23:23 11 him. 05:23:24 12 Q. What did you say to him? What did you say to 05:23:28 13 him? You told him something different from your
05:23:30 14 report?
05:23:30 15 A. I hadn't prepared my report yet. I just told him 05:23:33 16 I thought he could benefit from some kind of psychiatric 05:23:36 17 treatment. 05:23:39 18 Q. In your report you state that Mr. needs 05:23:49 19 long-term psychiatric treatment, and his treatment 05:23:55 20 should have two components, psychotherapy with a social 05:23:58 21 worker or psychologist once a week for a minimum of two
05:24:02 22 years. Is that what you reported?
05:24:05 23 A. Yes. 05:24:06 24 Q. Okay. And are you telling us now that even 05:24:09 25 though that's in the report, that's not something that
Goldstein - Cross-Exam
05:24:11 1 you ever communicated with Mr. Ward?
05:24:13 2 A. No, I hadn't prepared my report yet. I just told 05:24:17 3 him in general terms that I thought he should undergo 05:24:20 4 some psychiatric care. 05:24:21 5 Q. Okay. And this was back in 2014 when you first
05:24:24 6 evaluated him?
05:24:25 7 A. Correct. 05:24:25 8 Q. Then when you reevaluated him in 2016, two years 05:24:30 9 later, you made the same recommendation, correct, that 05:24:33 10 he see a social worker or a psychologist once a week for
05:24:37 11 a period of two years?
05:24:39 12 A. I don't recall if I told that to him again, but 05:24:41 13 that was in my report, yes. 05:24:44 14 Q. Well, you said that you discussed with him after 05:24:47 15 your first visit with him in 2014 that you recommended
05:24:50 16 that he get some additional counseling, correct?
05:24:54 17 A. Yes. 05:24:54 18 Q. Okay. And when you met with him in 2016, he made 05:24:59 19 you aware that he had not followed your recommendation
05:25:01 20 and sought out any type of treatment; is that fair?
05:25:06 21 A. He said he never got psychiatric care, yes. 05:25:08 22 Q. And when you saw him in 2016, did you again tell 05:25:12 23 him: I still think that you need to go see a
05:25:15 24 psychologist or social worker?
05:25:16 25 A. No, I didn't push it. No.
Goldstein - Cross-Exam
05:25:19 1 Q. Were you concerned about his wellbeing, sir?
05:25:22 2 A. I was concerned about his wellbeing, but my role 05:25:25 3 is not to be treating him. 05:25:27 4 Q. So you communicated to his attorneys that you 05:25:31 5 felt like he needed to see a social worker, and you 05:25:34 6 didn't bother to tell Mr. Ward that it was still your
05:25:37 7 opinion that he needed to see a social worker?
05:25:40 8 MS. HOULDING: Objection. Argumentative. 05:25:42 9 THE COURT: Sustained. You don't have to 05:25:43 10 answer. 05:25:44 11 A. In my report -- 05:25:45 12 THE COURT: Sustained. You don't have to 05:25:47 13 answer. 05:25:48 14 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry.
05:25:49 15 By Ms. Kern:
05:25:49 16 Q. And I certainly don't mean to be argumentative, 05:25:53 17 Dr. Goldstein. I'm trying to understand. In 2016 is it 05:25:56 18 your testimony that after you evaluated him, you made no 05:26:00 19 recommendation to him as far as getting any type of
05:26:05 20 further help from a social worker?
05:26:08 21 A. I asked him if he had sought psychiatric care, 05:26:11 22 and he said he couldn't afford it. So that was -- he 05:26:14 23 said his health coverage didn't cover it and he couldn't 05:26:18 24 afford to pay it out of pocket. That's where we left 05:26:22 25 it.
Goldstein - Cross-Exam 05:26:22 1 Q. Are you aware -- okay. Well, so he told you that 05:26:29 2 his health insurance didn't cover this type of
05:26:37 3 treatment?
05:26:37 4 A. That it wouldn't cover, you know, more than a -- 05:26:41 5 maybe more than one or two sessions, something like 05:26:43 6 that. 05:26:43 7 Q. Would you be surprised to learn that Mr. 05:26:47 8 told the jury last week that he did, in fact, have 05:26:51 9 medical insurance during the time that he was employed
05:26:53 10 at AutoZone through the sheriff's department?
05:26:56 11 A. He told me it wouldn't cover psychiatric 05:27:00 12 treatment. 05:27:00 13 Q. Would you also be surprised to learn that Mr. 05:27:06 14 Ward has testified that he had additional medical 05:27:09 15 insurance when he worked at the correctional facility in
05:27:13 16 2014?
05:27:14 17 A. Would I be surprised?
05:27:16 18 Q. Yes. 05:27:17 19 A. I have no idea. 05:27:18 20 Q. Okay. In fact, his attorneys gave us a copy of
05:27:23 21 his insurance information. Have you seen that before?
05:27:27 22 A. No. 05:27:28 23 Q. And are you aware, Dr. Goldstein, that Mr. 05:27:34 24 has testified under oath that he never even bothered to 05:27:38 25 see whether or not psychological care was covered by any
Goldstein - Redirect Exam
05:27:41 1 of his insurance?
05:27:42 2 A. I'm not aware of that, no. 05:27:52 3 MS. KERN: I tender the witness, Your Honor. 05:27:55 4 THE COURT: Let's go ahead and take our 05:27:56 5 afternoon recess. Everybody stay seated as our jurors 05:28:00 6 leave the room for 15 minutes. 05:28:04 7 (Jury exits the courtroom.) 05:28:39 8 THE COURT: Enjoy your break.
05:45:44 9 (Jury enters the courtroom.) 05:46:11 10 THE COURT: Now the plaintiff's attorney has 05:46:13 11 the opportunity to ask the witness some more questions. 05:46:16 12 MS. HOULDING: Thank you, Your Honor. I 05:46:18 13 just have a few additional questions for you, Dr. 05:46:22 14 Goldstein. 05:46:23 15 - - -
05:46:23 16 Robert L. Goldstein, M.D., Redirect Examination
05:46:24 17 By Ms. Houlding:
05:46:24 18 Q. Counsel for AutoZone asked you a lot of questions 05:46:27 19 about how much you've been paid or will be paid in 05:46:29 20 connection with your testimony. You work to get paid,
05:46:34 21 right?
05:46:34 22 A. Yeah, I hope to, yes. 05:46:38 23 Q. And you also talked a little bit earlier about 05:46:43 24 objective data and what you would like to have as 05:46:48 25 objective data. Were there -- were you prevented from
Goldstein - Redirect Exam 05:46:54 1 getting objective data that you felt you needed in
05:46:57 2 connection with providing your opinion in this case?
05:47:00 3 A. No. I had full access to your firm's drop box. 05:47:05 4 All the records that you had were the ones that I 05:47:11 5 received. 05:47:11 6 Q. And what reason, if any, did you have for not
05:47:16 7 interviewing Mrs. or Mr. 's children?
05:47:22 8 A. Well, there were two considerations. One, I felt 05:47:25 9 that I had more than enough information from my 05:47:30 10 examination, the medical records, and the other 05:47:32 11 documents I mentioned. And I felt a little 05:47:39 12 uncomfortable interviewing Mr. 's wife since he had 05:47:43 13 mentioned to me how upset she was about the whole 05:47:47 14 situation. So I didn't think it would add much, and I 05:47:50 15 thought it would be unnecessarily upsetting for her.
05:47:52 16 Q. All right. And earlier counsel for AutoZone 05:47:55 17 asked you some questions about expert opinions you've 05:47:59 18 given in other cases and specifically described to you 05:48:04 19 very briefly some facts from a case titled the Whitten
05:48:08 20 case; do you recall that testimony?
05:48:09 21 A. Yes. 05:48:10 22 Q. And is it fair to say that there are a lot of 05:48:14 23 facts and information in connection with that case that
05:48:17 24 you haven't shared with the jury here today?
05:48:19 25 A. Yeah. I haven't even begun to tell the whole
Goldstein - Redirect Exam 05:48:22 1 story about what happened in that case. 05:48:24 2 Q. And is it an apples-to-apples comparison between 05:48:29 3 the Whitten facts and what you know about the situation
05:48:32 4 here?
05:48:33 5 A. Oh, definitely, yes. 05:48:43 6 Q. Do you know whether Mr. was deposed before
05:48:49 7 you first interviewed him?
05:48:55 8 A. You mean in 2014?
05:48:58 9 Q. Well, certainly 2014, but in 2016, do you know 05:49:02 10 whether when you interviewed him and issued your first 05:49:07 11 opinion, do you know whether his deposition was
05:49:09 12 complete?
05:49:11 13 A. I think it may have been. I didn't receive it. 05:49:15 14 I wasn't advised that the copy had been received. But I 05:49:18 15 think I saw some excerpts. 05:49:21 16 Q. And so you've testified that since issuing your 05:49:26 17 reports in this case you have reviewed his deposition
05:49:29 18 testimony, right?
05:49:30 19 A. After I issued my reports, yes. 05:49:33 20 Q. And did your opinion change in any way after you
05:49:36 21 had read his deposition?
05:49:37 22 A. No, not at all. 05:49:38 23 Q. All right. We talked a little bit earlier about 05:49:49 24 credibility and whether something was internally 05:49:51 25 consistent and authentic. And I believe you testified a
Goldstein - Redirect Exam 05:49:57 1 little bit ago about whether you would assess 05:50:00 2 credibility from a psychiatric standpoint. As an 05:50:04 3 expert, what is your role, if any, in accessing
05:50:08 4 credibility? Is that a determination that you make?
05:50:11 5 A. Well, the credibility of a party in a lawsuit is 05:50:15 6 really up to the jury to decide, not a psychiatrist. 05:50:20 7 I'm only concerned with the internal consistency of what 05:50:26 8 information I receive from a psychiatric perspective. 05:50:30 9 Q. All right. And earlier counsel was asking you 05:50:34 10 some questions about Skyping with Mr. and whether 05:50:40 11 that was as good as interviewing him in person. Do you
05:50:44 12 recall that?
05:50:44 13 A. Yes. 05:50:45 14 Q. Are there any guidelines or ethical rules that 05:50:49 15 govern the propriety of a psychiatrist or someone in 05:50:53 16 your position conducting an examination by Skype or
05:50:57 17 video conference?
05:50:58 18 A. Video conferencing is very well accepted in 05:51:02 19 psychiatry, not only for evaluations, but also for 05:51:06 20 treatment of patients. Patients who live somewhere 05:51:10 21 where there are not psychiatrists available for 05:51:13 22 treatment can get treatment fortunately from a remote 05:51:18 23 location. So it's been around for 25 years or more.
05:51:24 24 And it's extremely reliable and well accepted. 05:51:28 25 Q. And we were -- you were answering some questions
Goldstein - Redirect Exam 05:51:31 1 earlier about the length of psychiatric exam of Mr. 05:51:38 2 Ward. Over the course of your career, could you 05:51:41 3 estimate how many comprehensive psychological exams
05:51:46 4 you've conducted?
05:51:47 5 A. Not really. Many, many hundreds over the years. 05:51:52 6 Q. And is there an average length that these take, 05:51:55 7 or is the time that you spent with Mr. consistent 05:51:58 8 with the comprehensive psych exams that you've taken
05:52:04 9 over your career?
05:52:05 10 A. Yeah, definitely. I just keep going until I'm 05:52:09 11 finished. So there's no time limit; if I finish in an 05:52:13 12 hour, finish in two hours -- two hours maybe is an 05:52:16 13 average. But if I have to go three or four hours, I 05:52:20 14 will. But usually about -- between one and two hours is 05:52:26 15 basically an average, I would say.
05:52:28 16 Q. And do you think over the course of your career 05:52:30 17 you have gotten more efficient in the way that you 05:52:33 18 conduct these? In other words, when you started out 05:52:37 19 were they about the same length of time? Were they
05:52:39 20 longer? Were they shorter?
05:52:41 21 A. Well, I think hopefully you gain some expertise 05:52:44 22 as you go along so you're more efficient, hopefully. 05:52:47 23 Q. We were speaking -- you were answering some 05:52:50 24 questions earlier about psychological testing, written
05:52:54 25 testing. Do you recall that testimony?
Goldstein - Redirect Exam 05:52:56 1 A. Yes. 05:52:56 2 Q. And are there written psychological -- sort of 05:53:01 3 those pen and pencil tests that you were discussing, are 05:53:04 4 there written tests that measure a person's consistency
05:53:09 5 that you're aware of?
05:53:10 6 A. Consistency? Not really. Not specifically. 05:53:22 7 Q. Now, just very briefly on this weight issue, do 05:53:30 8 you recall whether Mr. told you over what period of
05:53:35 9 time there was some weight loss?
05:53:39 10 A. I don't remember if there was a specific 05:53:45 11 timeframe that he gave me. 05:53:47 12 Q. All right. And we looked at a number of medical 05:53:51 13 records with defense counsel. I'm not going to show you 05:53:53 14 all of them. We'll probably just go back to one or two. 05:53:56 15 But some of the records that counsel showed you, those
05:54:01 16 were medical visits with Mr. Ward's urologist, right?
05:54:05 17 A. Yes. 05:54:06 18 Q. And I'm going to look at Defense Exhibit 62, 05:54:13 19 which you looked at earlier. And just first looking at 05:54:17 20 the first page, do you see there's a reference here in
05:54:26 21 the Past Medical section, "atypical chest pain"?
05:54:32 22 A. In the past medical section?
05:54:35 23 Q. In the "History" section?
05:54:37 24 A. Yes. 05:54:38 25 Q. Okay. And also if you look up to the "History of
Goldstein - Redirect Exam 05:54:41 1 Present Illness," we discussed this record earlier in 05:54:47 2 connection with the description of the heart doing 05:54:50 3 flip-flops and things like that. And I believe you 05:54:53 4 testified that that related to and supported your
05:54:56 5 opinion in this case; is that correct?
05:54:58 6 A. Yes. 05:54:59 7 Q. And so if you compare page 1 where there's a 05:55:03 8 description of conduct, that is consistent at least with 05:55:07 9 the anxiety that you've described earlier and the sort
05:55:11 10 of panic feelings if we turn to page 2 of that exhibit?
05:55:15 11 A. Before you change the page, can I comment on some
05:55:18 12 other note here?
05:55:19 13 Q. Okay. Go ahead. 05:55:21 14 A. On this particular page under "Social," it says 05:55:26 15 "Tobacco use: Uses chewing tobacco, never a smoker."
05:55:30 16 Q. So that's consistent with both those records?
05:55:34 17 A. I didn't recall that entry, but there it is. 05:55:37 18 Q. So then comparing page 1 where there is 05:55:39 19 discussion of symptoms that do relate to -- at least are 05:55:42 20 consistent with the anxiety, I think counsel was showing 05:55:46 21 you page 2 where there was no report or it didn't 05:55:54 22 indicate report of -- I think it was anxiety on this
05:56:02 23 page. So do you note that?
05:56:03 24 A. Yeah. 05:56:04 25 Q. So even in this same record, this is one record,
Goldstein - Redirect Exam 05:56:07 1 does its appear to you that there is some inconsistency
05:56:10 2 between what's on page 1 and what's on page 2?
05:56:14 3 A. Yeah, unfortunately medical records often contain 05:56:16 4 inconsistencies in the same medical facility. 05:56:21 5 Q. And would you agree with me that on page 1 the 05:56:24 6 heart doing flip-flops and other commentary there is 05:56:28 7 consistent with your diagnosis of unspecified anxiety
05:56:33 8 disorder?
05:56:34 9 A. Yes. 05:56:48 10 Q. Earlier counsel was asking you a little bit about 05:56:54 11 Mr. speaking to you and whether he had any problems 05:56:57 12 talking to you about the sexual harassment that he 05:57:00 13 experienced at AutoZone. 05:57:05 14 When he spoke with you in any and all of your 05:57:09 15 interviews and examinations, did he appear tearful? Did 05:57:12 16 his manner change at all in discussing the sexual
05:57:16 17 harassment?
05:57:16 18 A. He was definitely uncomfortable. And at times, 05:57:22 19 as I said -- I think I said "visibly distressed." He 05:57:25 20 was grimacing. He wasn't tearful, but he was obviously 05:57:29 21 very uncomfortable even talking to me about it. 05:57:33 22 Q. All right. And let's turn to another medical 05:57:37 23 record. This is also Defense Exhibit 68. And I want to 05:57:40 24 look at again the -- I'm going to show you the second 05:57:57 25 page of Defense Exhibit 68. And see if you note
Goldstein - Redirect Exam 05:58:05 1 anxiety, atypical chest pain and fatigue on this first
05:58:09 2 page. Do you see that?
05:58:10 3 A. Yes. 05:58:11 4 Q. And is that consistent -- this was on September 05:58:14 5 2, 2014. Is that consistent with your diagnosis in this
05:58:19 6 matter?
05:58:19 7 A. Yes. 05:58:20 8 Q. All right. And then if we turn to the second 05:58:22 9 page, which I think -- or I guess it's the third page 05:58:25 10 that defense counsel showed you. Again, there was no 05:58:29 11 indication of anxiety or other issues on the second 05:58:37 12 page. So again, is this an example where the reporting
05:58:43 13 in one single medical record was somewhat inconsistent?
05:58:47 14 A. Contradictory, yes. 05:58:57 15 Q. Is there any conclusion that you draw from a
05:59:00 16 medical record being internally inconsistent?
05:59:03 17 A. Well, with these electronic records sometimes 05:59:06 18 things are like automatically reproduced time after time 05:59:11 19 after time when they're dating back several visits. So 05:59:17 20 it may not be reflecting what was ascertained on that 05:59:22 21 particular visit. It may reflect something from weeks 05:59:26 22 or months before.
05:59:27 23 Q. So I would imagine that over the course of your 05:59:30 24 career you've reviewed a number of medical records; is
05:59:33 25 that fair to say?
Goldstein - Redirect Exam 05:59:34 1 A. Yes. Often. 05:59:36 2 Q. All right. And in your experience is there 05:59:45 3 information that's contained in the medical record that 05:59:49 4 hasn't been asked of a patient on any given date that 05:59:51 5 the medical record is dated? In other words, do you 05:59:54 6 know whether every doctor goes through every single 05:59:57 7 question that's on the medical record every time they
06:00:01 8 see a patient?
06:00:01 9 A. No, often now it's just kind of, you know, put in 06:00:06 10 there. And it may reflect something from a very distant 06:00:10 11 past information that was received way before this 06:00:15 12 particular appointment. 06:00:18 13 Q. All right. Earlier you were asked a little bit 06:00:21 14 about Mr. 's doctor prescribing Valium and whether 06:00:27 15 he was a good doctor or not. And counsel read you part 06:00:30 16 of a footnote from your supplemental report.
06:00:34 17 MS. HOULDING: And I would just request the 06:00:36 18 Court's permission -- there was a sentence of that 06:00:39 19 footnote that counsel didn't read, and I just, for 06:00:42 20 completeness, would ask permission to read it.
06:00:42 21 By Ms. Houlding:
06:00:46 22 Q. So counsel had read you or you had read two 06:00:50 23 sentences of a footnote regarding primary care 06:00:53 24 physicians. And I just wanted to read the rest of it 06:00:56 25 which states, "The percentage of patients prescribed
Goldstein - Redirect Exam 06:00:59 1 psychiatric medications by their PCPs is reported to be 06:01:03 2 as high as 74.6 percent."
06:01:07 3 And to your knowledge is that accurate?
06:01:10 4 A. Yeah. Most patients in the United States will 06:01:13 5 have -- who have mental health problems are medicated by 06:01:17 6 their general practitioners. In other words, they never 06:01:21 7 get to a psychiatrist, as in this case. 06:01:26 8 Q. And earlier counsel was asking you a little bit 06:01:29 9 about Mr. 's parents having passed away. When you 06:01:34 10 do your initial psychiatric exam, IS IT correct that you 06:01:40 11 take a family history, right? You ask about a 06:01:44 12 patient's parents and family members, things of that
06:01:47 13 nature, right?
06:01:48 14 A. Always. Yeah. 06:01:49 15 Q. So the fact that Mr. told you that his 06:01:53 16 parents had passed away and the years they passed away, 06:01:58 17 was that in response to those questions, or was that
06:02:01 18 some response to a general question about trauma?
06:02:04 19 A. No, I asked him specific questions about his 06:02:08 20 parents, what they did, when they passed away, his 06:02:13 21 family life, any family psychiatric history, and so 06:02:17 22 forth. 06:02:18 23 Q. And I believe you testified that you weren't sure 06:02:21 24 whether you were aware of his brother-in-law passing 06:02:25 25 away. Do you have a recollection about him talking
Goldstein - Recross-Exam
06:02:28 1 about a road rage incident in which someone passed away?
06:02:32 2 A. Not when I examined him initially, no. 06:02:37 3 Q. Do you know one way or another whether Mr. Ward 06:02:40 4 was given copies of either your initial report or your
06:02:44 5 supplemental report?
06:02:46 6 A. I don't know what your firm's practice is about 06:02:51 7 showing my reports to your client. I don't know if you 06:02:54 8 do or not. 06:02:54 9 Q. All right. 06:02:56 10 A. I didn't give him a copy of the report; I know 06:02:59 11 that. 06:03:02 12 MS. HOULDING: I have nothing further right 06:03:04 13 now.
06:03:06 14 MS. KERN: Your Honor, just a couple 06:03:10 15 recross. 06:03:14 16 - - -
06:03:14 17 Robert L. Goldstein, M.D., Recross-Examination
06:03:17 18 By Ms. Kern:
06:03:17 19 Q. Dr. Goldstein, you testified when shown the 06:03:20 20 records under "Psychiatric," being anxious or depressed 06:03:24 21 not present, you stated that sometimes those records are
06:03:27 22 automatically reproduced. Do you recall that testimony?
06:03:29 23 A. Yeah. It's like, you know, it's the same exact 06:03:33 24 wording, the same exact list or checklist. And you see 06:03:36 25 it in note after note after note.
Goldstein - Recross-Exam 06:03:38 1 Q. Okay. You don't have any -- I mean, you're 06:03:41 2 speculating, though, as far as what Mr. told his 06:03:46 3 own doctors, correct, because you were not there during
06:03:49 4 those visits?
06:03:50 5 A. Exactly. I don't know what he was asked. 06:03:53 6 Q. And you're speculating as to whether or not those 06:03:55 7 answers that were populated were automatically populated 06:03:58 8 or whether or not they were based on reports that Mr. 06:04:01 9 Ward had made that he, in fact, was not anxious or
06:04:04 10 depressed?
06:04:05 11 A. Yeah. I was just commenting on what I see very 06:04:08 12 often in these kind of records. 06:04:09 13 Q. And you would certainly expect his PCP, Dr. 06:04:13 14 Traylor, primary care physician, to be careful in 06:04:18 15 keeping his medical records, especially with regard to 06:04:21 16 the psychiatric aspect of it because he was the person
06:04:25 17 prescribing Valium for Mr. , correct?
06:04:27 18 MS. HOULDING: Objection. Lacks personal 06:04:29 19 knowledge. 06:04:30 20 THE COURT: Sustained. 06:04:32 21 MS. HOULDING: Hold on a second.
06:04:38 22 By Ms. Kern:
06:04:39 23 Q. You testified just a minute ago that Mr. Ward was 06:04:42 24 uncomfortable talking to you about the allegations of
06:04:46 25 sexual harassment, correct?
Goldstein - Recross-Exam 06:04:48 1 A. Yeah. That was pretty obvious. 06:04:50 2 Q. Isn't it true, Dr. Goldstein, that, in fact, Mr. 06:04:57 3 Ward had no problem telling you about his allegations of
06:05:00 4 sexual harassment?
06:05:02 5 A. No, he did -- well, he had a problem in the sense 06:05:07 6 that it was very -- he was uncomfortable, and he was 06:05:11 7 distressed when he had to rehash it all. 06:05:13 8 Q. You were aware that he had two other individuals 06:05:16 9 in the house living with him besides his wife when he 06:05:20 10 claimed he was being sexually harassed, is that right,
06:05:23 11 his daughters?
06:05:25 12 MS. HOULDING: Objection. 06:05:25 13 A. His two daughters. 06:05:28 14 Q. You didn't bother to interview either Kayla or 06:05:32 15 Emily in the four years you've been working on this
06:05:34 16 case?
06:05:34 17 A. Correct. 06:05:35 18 Q. You also just testified you had full access to
06:05:39 19 Ms. Houlding's drop box in this case?
06:05:42 20 A. Yes. 06:05:42 21 Q. And it was your understanding that in this drop 06:05:46 22 box contained all the information that was generated
06:05:49 23 during the course of this litigation?
06:05:51 24 MS. HOULDING: Objection. 06:05:51 25 A. Well, some of it was --
Goldstein - Recross-Exam 06:05:53 1 THE COURT: Sustained.
06:05:55 2 By Ms. Kern:
06:05:57 3 Q. Dr. Goldstein, did you ever bother to look to see
06:05:59 4 what was in this drop box?
06:06:00 5 A. I ascertained that all the records that I 06:06:04 6 reviewed were available to me. All the records that the 06:06:07 7 lawyers had, I had access to. 06:06:09 8 Q. Okay. So you would have had access to all the
06:06:12 9 depositions that were taken in this case?
06:06:14 10 A. I did not access the depositions directly, no.
06:06:20 11 Q. Why not?
06:06:20 12 A. I could have, but I didn't. 06:06:22 13 Q. Did you ever ask Ms. Houlding if you could have
06:06:25 14 copies of the depositions?
06:06:26 15 A. The only deposition I was concerned with was Mr. 06:06:31 16 Ward's deposition. 06:06:33 17 Q. Okay. Now, we talked about gauging consistency 06:06:41 18 and inconsistency with what Mr. was telling you, 06:06:44 19 and part of what you'd look at were, again, collateral 06:06:49 20 sources to determine whether Mr. is being
06:06:51 21 consistent in what he's relaying to you?
06:06:54 22 A. Generally, yes. 06:06:55 23 Q. The collateral sources include these medical
06:06:58 24 records that we've discussed?
Goldstein - Recross-Exam 06:07:03 2 by counsel, making a point that the record itself was 06:07:09 3 inconsistent because it reported that Mr. had
06:07:15 4 atypical chest pain. Do you see that on page 1?
06:07:19 5 A. Yes. 06:07:19 6 Q. And your testimony was that it was inconsistent 06:07:23 7 with page 2 which indicates that no anxiety, change in
06:07:27 8 sleep patterns, or mood changes were present?
06:07:30 9 A. Right. 06:07:31 10 Q. Correct? But isn't it true, Dr. Goldstein, in 06:07:34 11 looking at this medical record that the atypical chest 06:07:38 12 pain is referenced under the patient's history and not
06:07:42 13 the presenting symptoms at the time?
06:07:48 14 A. Yes. It says he had these symptoms on and off 06:07:52 15 for a number of months. 06:07:54 16 Q. But this record indicates that he had this in the
06:07:56 17 past and not currently, correct?
06:07:58 18 A. It's not clear. 06:08:04 20 of the record that says no anxiety, change in sleep
06:08:07 21 pattern, or mood changes were present, correct?
06:08:10 22 A. Well, it's inconsistent in the sense that any 06:08:14 23 doctor should know that these PCC, these skipped beats 06:08:21 24 and possibly chest pains as well could be very well be 06:08:25 25 manifestations of stress and anxiety.
Goldstein - Recross-Exam 06:08:28 1 Q. But again, the atypical chest pain that you're 06:08:30 2 referencing on redirect examination was something that 06:08:33 3 was part of Mr. Ward's past and not presenting in the
06:08:38 4 evaluation that he had on 10/15/13, correct?
06:08:41 5 A. Well, it's the history of his present illness. 06:08:45 6 So it's a present -- it's referring to what's going on 06:08:49 7 with him now.
06:08:49 8 Q. Even though it's under "Past Medical History"?
06:08:52 9 A. No, it's under "History of Present Illness." See 06:08:57 10 "History of Present Illness: Chest pain, pressure. Has 06:09:02 11 been going on for several months," et cetera. That's 06:09:04 12 the present. 06:09:06 13 Q. In looking at this medical record at the top, it 06:09:09 14 states that most recently Mr. had an episode that
06:09:14 15 seemed to be relieved by omeprazole?
06:09:20 16 A. Yes. 06:09:21 17 Q. Omeprazole is a medication taken when an
06:09:25 18 individual suffered from GERD, correct?
06:09:28 19 A. Yes, it's Prilosec. 06:09:29 20 Q. Mr. had been suffering from GERD for a 06:09:33 21 number of years before he even came to AutoZone; is that
06:09:35 22 right?
06:09:35 23 A. Yes. 06:09:37 24 MS. KERN: Your Honor, at this time I'd like 06:09:38 25 to also move for the admission of additional medical
Goldstein - Recross-Exam 06:09:41 1 records that Mr. -- I'm sorry, that Dr. Goldstein 06:09:45 2 has relied on that are not objected to by the plaintiff. 06:09:49 3 MS. HOULDING: That's fine. If we could 06:09:50 4 just get the list of what they are. 06:09:53 5 MS. KERN: Would be Defendant's Exhibits 41, 06:09:56 6 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 06:10:12 7 56, 57, 58, 63, 64, and 71 through 89.
04:38:21 8 (Whereupon Defendant's Exhibits 41 through 06:10:14 9 58, 63, 64, and 71 through 89 are admitted into 04:38:24 10 evidence.)
06:10:27 11 By Ms. Kern:
06:10:27 12 Q. And just one final question for you, Dr. 06:10:30 13 Goldstein. If you felt or thought that Dr. Traylor's 06:10:34 14 medical records were indeed inconsistent, did you reach 06:10:37 15 out to Dr. Traylor and try to understand the
06:10:40 16 inconsistency or get to the bottom of the inconsistency?
06:10:44 17 A. I don't think that was the main point. 06:10:50 18 Q. So you didn't bother to contact Dr. Traylor and
06:10:52 19 ask why you thought these records were inconsistent?
06:10:55 20 A. The only inconsistency was he said there's no 06:10:58 21 anxiety, and Mr. Ward told me repeatedly that the reason 06:11:04 22 the notes didn't reflect what he was experiencing was he 06:11:08 23 was too ashamed to get into talking about it with his 06:11:12 24 doctor. So that applies to all of those entries.
06:11:16 25 Q. And you understand that Mr. Ward has been talking
Nobles - Direct Exam
06:11:19 1 about these allegations all week to the jury?
06:11:22 2 A. Well, yes. That's why we're here. 06:11:26 3 MS. KERN: I don't have any further 06:11:28 4 questions. 06:11:28 5 MS. HOULDING: Nothing further, Your Honor. 06:11:30 6 THE COURT: Thank you. 06:11:42 7 Would you like to come up and collect the
06:11:44 8 exhibits?
06:11:45 9 And your next witness will be?
06:12:05 10 MS. NARAYAN: Plaintiffs are going to call 06:12:08 11 Kayla Nobles. 06:13:06 12 THE CLERK: Please watch your step. Please 06:13:10 13 come forward and stand in front of the clerk's bench. 06:13:14 14 Please place your left hand on the Bible and raise your 06:13:17 15 right hand. State your name for the Court.
06:13:22 16 THE WITNESS: Kayla Nobles, K-a-y-l-a 06:13:29 17 W-a-r-d N-o-b-l-e-s. 06:13:29 18 (Whereupon the witness was sworn by the 06:13:43 19 clerk.) 06:13:43 20 THE CLERK: Thank you. Please be seated. 06:13:46 21 - - -
06:13:46 22 Kayla Nobles, Direct Examination
06:13:49 23 By Ms. Narayan:
06:13:49 24 Q. Good afternoon, Ms. Nobles. 06:13:52 25 A. Good afternoon.